Cineform codec OK as "High" Not working as Film scan at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > CineForm Software Showcase

CineForm Software Showcase
Cross platform digital intermediates for independent filmmakers.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 18th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 397
Cineform codec OK as "High" Not working as Film scan

I'm using the trial version of NEO HDV.

I downloaded all my footage and I was first blown away by how easier it was on my system. I didn't realize that by default I was using the "Medium" setting.
I have a dedicated 500G RAID 0 for capture (2 x250) and Lacie drives for storage. 4 GIG or decent Kingston memory and a 2.4 GHZ dual core.

After downloading all my footage I realized that there are several settings. "Medium", which is the default, "High" and two "film scan" settings. I decided to use Film Scan 1.

I re-downloaded all the footage using Film Scan 1.
It just doesn't play right in the Vegas 7 time line. Sound and picture are not synch and it's unacceptably jerky.

I re-downloaded some footage using the High setting instead of film scan, and now everything is fine.

So would you say my system , pentium 2.4 dual core and 4 gig of memory can't handle the Film scan setting?

Should I buy a 3 Ghz pentium?

I wanted the best setting possible to be sure I had the best quality for my edit and final cut. Should I settle down for the High setting? Is that good enough in the option of a film out? Isn't the 'High" setting a tiny bit lower in quality than the original M2t footage?

Thanks
Larry
Larry Secrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 10:30 AM   #2
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,090
Yes, your PC might be on the edge for the Filmscan modes under Vegas. It is likely real-time under MediaPlayerClassic. As the datarate increases the decoding performance decreases a little and Vegas is not as threaded as our DirectShow player. Before you upgrade your PC, there will be a new build that speeds the decode of these high-rate clips in the next week or two.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 11:43 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 397
Ok, thanks for your answer.
I will have to upgrade my processor eventually, from 2.4 to 3.2 ghz, but it'd be nice if the new upgrade could happen within 10 days.

Regardless of whether I upgrade and whether or not there will be a new build, is it worth it for me to bother using Film Scan Vs High?
Larry Secrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 12:09 PM   #4
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,090
High is fine for HDV compressed sources.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 397
By fine for HDV what do you mean?

Are you saying the level of quality provided by the High setting is similar or better than HDV? I won't have any loss at all by using the High setting if I compare the footage to m2t?
Larry Secrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Utrecht, NL | Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 612
I believe considering the HDV input, FS1 will not give a (any) significant benefits over "High". Cineform isn't magic, it can only encode information that is available in the input.

In real terms you could say it isn't worth it.

George/
George Kroonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 05:49 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Solana Beach, CA
Posts: 853
The FilmScan modes are designed to accurately reproduce noise (such as film grain). Because film grain is similar to "noise" we allow a higher bit rate for the compressed streams to accurately reproduce the grain.

From pre-compressed HDV sources you don't have the same high-frequency noise content, so we can reduce the bit rate by going to a "lower" quality setting. Selecting a "lower" quality level for CineForm compression doesn't reduce the end quality of your footage as much as it better matches the allowable encoder bit rate to the entropy level (information level) of your source.

So to be specific, because pre-compressed HDV material doesn't have film grain you can use a lower bit rate such as "High" without compromising the quality of your footage.

EDIT: We sometimes like to think we provide magic! :-)
David Taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 08:29 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 397
I'm not extremely in a hurry but still, not work on the project for two weeks is kind of tough.
Should I wait for the new build that speeds the decode of these high-rate clips or should I go ahead and use the High setting without any fear of losing any quality?
Larry Secrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 08:42 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Solana Beach, CA
Posts: 853
I think you should use High. It seems like the perfect fit for your needs, it runs on your existing hardware, and the files are smaller.
David Taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2008, 09:06 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 397
Ok. I think I'm going to set up for HIGHT. Now, in case I wanted to upgrade my system, would you say that I should upgrade the graphic card, or the processor?
Larry Secrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2008, 03:46 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Hollywood, Atlanta
Posts: 437
I read (somewhere) that FilmScan 1 was better if your doing composting then High.
__________________
Tyson X
Tyson Persall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2008, 07:41 PM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,435
I use High HD in Prospect for Sony EX1 footage.

Davids - do you guys think this is an optimal setting, in terms of very high visual quality vs HDD space consumption?

What High HD Optimized means?

Thanks
Alex Raskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2008, 08:38 PM   #13
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,090
There no optimal setting. Use High Optimized over High, practically for any multi-generation work with detailed scenes. High and High Optimized use the has base quality, High Optimized hold on to it better through multiple generations (H.O. is the High version of the mechanism used in Filmscan 1/2.)
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,435
Any file size difference betw High and High Optimized?
Alex Raskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2008, 09:53 PM   #15
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,090
Depends on the scene, they are the same size from simple to normal complexity, but H.O. is allowed to grow to meet complexity needs if required.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > CineForm Software Showcase

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:06 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network