Aspect HD

Jay Nemeth · September 16th, 2003, 02:36 AM

A couple questions about the Matrox P750. If I understand correctly, it will downconvert the 720/30p signal to NTSC 480/60i to be viewed on a 16:9 capable NTSC monitor? Is this simply a conversion of one of the "would be" rgb monitors into TV scan rate?

My next question is, could one of the monitor channels be driven at progressive 1280 x 720 with a 60hz refresh rate and feed a true HDTV monitor that accepted RGB? Would it be actual HD video with the proper color gamut, or just a facsimile of a "full screen" computer monitor signal?

I hope these questions make sense. I'm just trying to see if there is a way to scrub and see the actual color corrected image with full detail accurately and in the way it will look when it is output to DVHS.

Jay

David Newman · September 16th, 2003, 09:42 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : A couple questions about the Matrox P750. If I understand correctly, it will downconvert the 720/30p signal to NTSC 480/60i to be viewed on a 16:9 capable NTSC monitor? Is this simply a conversion of one of the "would be" rgb monitors into TV scan rate?-->>>

The Maxtrox P750 correctly downconverts to 4:3 NTSC (S_Video) displays via letterboxing, or it can output to an native 16:9 capable NTSC display.

<<<--My next question is, could one of the monitor channels be driven at progressive 1280 x 720 with a 60hz refresh rate and feed a true HDTV monitor that accepted RGB? Would it be actual HD video with the proper color gamut, or just a facsimile of a "full screen" computer monitor signal?--->>>

The DVI outputs of the P750 would be same a the computer monitor -- I think. I'm unsure if there are differences between the DVI on HDTV and the DVI output from the Maxtrox card. You should email Maxtox for details.

Jay Nemeth · September 20th, 2003, 02:32 AM

David,

I'm trying to understand the RAM speed requirements. I am not finding RAM listed as 1066 RDRAM and only finding DDR rated at 400mhz. Do you get the 800mhz DDR rating because you use 2 channels of 400? Where does PC2700 fit into the whole mix? Is that fast enough?

Are 7200 RPM drives that are ATA 100 OK, or do they need to be SATA?

I'm not very computer savvy unfortunately.

Thanks,

Jay

David Newman · September 20th, 2003, 10:55 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : David,
I'm trying to understand the RAM speed requirements. I am not finding RAM listed as 1066 RDRAM and only finding DDR rated at 400mhz. -->>>

1066 RDRAM is now out I guess (last year fastest memory.) If you have a PC 6-18 months old it might be using this RAM -- it is still pretty fast -- effective 533MHz RAM.

<<<--Do you get the 800mhz DDR rating because you use 2 channels of 400? Where does PC2700 fit into the whole mix? Is that fast enough? -->>>

You are correct, 800MHz is the effective speed of dual 400MHz DDR. These days except no less than Dual DDR 400 on an 800MHz FSB (Front Side Bus.) This is very common now -- not too hard to get. PC2700 is effective 333MHz RAM.

<<<--Are 7200 RPM drives that are ATA 100 OK, or do they need to be SATA? -->>>

SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine.

<<<--I'm not very computer savvy unfortunately.-->>>

It changes all the time. All the above was new to everyone a few months ago.

Jay Nemeth · September 20th, 2003, 05:49 PM

So, if I'm building a box from the ground up, should I use PC3600 ram since it's a little faster? Or is there a limitation because the FSB is 800mhz on the processor?

I already have a 200 gig 7200 rpm drive, if that is enough space for me, could I go get another 200 gig and do a RAID 1 to mirror and backup? Or is the RAID 0 a neccessity? How about RAID 0+1?

Also, does Aspect HD support batch capture like Premeire would if it was doing the capturing?

And lastly, does the digitizing retain the original timecode from the camera?

Thanks in advance,

Jay

Steve Mullen · September 20th, 2003, 07:49 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman :

You are correct, 800MHz is the effective speed of dual 400MHz DDR. -->>>

OK, that's now clear. Pairs of RAM chips.

<<<-- SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine. -->>>

Looks like Dell offers only 2 choices:

1. one 200GB 7200rpm ATA100 drive

2. one 80GB 7200rpm drive (not clear if this is the Boot drive, which it should be + audio) PLUS a RAID of two 100GB ATA100 7200rpm drives. (I asume it's a MB RAID controller.)

Now let's assume a 2.6GHz or 2.8GHz HT P4 and 512MB RAM.

Simple question, how many streams with disk config #1 verses #2.

David Newman · September 21st, 2003, 10:43 AM

Steve, someone changed my last post completely, I had to delete it. All I the info I posted in response to Jay had be removed.

David Newman · September 21st, 2003, 10:47 AM

<<<--DN: SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine. -->>>

SM: Looks like Dell offers only 2 choices:
SM: 1. one 200GB 7200rpm ATA100 drive
SM: 2. one 80GB 7200rpm drive (not clear if this is the Boot drive, which it should be + audio) PLUS a RAID of two 100GB ATA100 7200rpm drives. (I asume it's a MB RAID controller.)
SM: Now let's assume a 2.6GHz or 2.8GHz HT P4 and 512MB RAM.
SM: Simple question, how many streams with disk config #1 verses #2.

Configuration #1 will give two video streams (disk I/O bound) but will able to apply many filters, and multiple titles tracks.

Config. #2 will do up to four streams for video.

Jay Nemeth · September 21st, 2003, 02:11 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : Steve, someone changed my last post completely, I had to delete it. All I the info I posted in response to Jay had be removed. -->>>

Yea, that was strange, there were quotes from a post that didn't even exist and was confusing.

Hopefully this thread can be a reference for others who are building a box for use with Aspect HD. David, if you get a chance, can you re-answer those previous questions?

Thanks,

Jay

David Newman · September 21st, 2003, 02:26 PM

Trying again :)

<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : So, if I'm building a box from the ground up, should I use PC3600 ram since it's a little faster? Or is there a limitation because the FSB is 800mhz on the processor? -->>>

You need to combine Dual channel 400Mhz DDR PC3600, with a P4 with an 800Mhz FSB. The resulting memory speed is 2.4 times faster than a standard PC2700 system.

<<<--I already have a 200 gig 7200 rpm drive, if that is enough space for me, could I go get another 200 gig and do a RAID 1 to mirror and backup? Or is the RAID 0 a neccessity? How about RAID 0+1?-->>>

RAID 0 is the only low cost way to double your disk performance. A single drive will give you dual stream, a RAID-0 setup should give you 4 streams.

<<<--Also, does Aspect HD support batch capture like Premeire would if it was doing the capturing? And lastly, does the digitizing retain the original timecode from the camera? -->>>

No, not in the current Aspect HD release.

Steve Mullen · September 21st, 2003, 06:56 PM

And my last post is gone too. Did I mess something up?

I assumed HDV was NON Drop Frame.

But Aspect HD uses Drop Frame.

Which is it?

Andre Jesmanowicz · September 21st, 2003, 07:04 PM

Till now I use huffyuv avis to do HD editing. I need these files to do some processing in VirtualDub, mainly to correct for camera vibrations.
Will Aspect avi files work with VirtualDub? It means - are these files usable out of the P6.5?

Steve Mullen · September 21st, 2003, 08:08 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by David
Configuration #1 will give two video streams (disk I/O bound) but will able to apply many filters, and multiple titles tracks.
-->>>

Thank you.

Looks like 2.4GHz, 800FSB, dual channel 400MHz RAM, and single ATA100 drive works fine for 2 streams.

But will this handle the on-the-file CAPTURE & CONVERT?

And, how much disk space is needed to hold 1 hour of capture--using the C & C option? Using MAX quality setting. Using NORMAL quality setting?

David Newman · September 22nd, 2003, 09:27 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : And my last post is gone too. Did I mess something up?-->>>

I think you accidently edited my message, deleting most of it content.

<<<--I assumed HDV was NON Drop Frame.
But Aspect HD uses Drop Frame.
Which is it? -->>>

Drop frame vs Non Drop Frame is not the issue (an easy convert if is was.) It was more technical, I don't have the info on hand.

David Newman · September 22nd, 2003, 09:32 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Andre Jesmanowicz : Till now I use huffyuv avis to do HD editing. I need these files to do some processing in VirtualDub, mainly to correct for camera vibrations.
Will Aspect avi files work with VirtualDub? It means - are these files usable out of the P6.5? -->>>

Aspect HD's AVI do load fine within VirtualDub (and any PC program that supports VFW or DirectShow.) VirtualDub can't export into CFHD (the CineForm codec) however you can still use HUFFYUV on ouput, importing those AVIs into Aspect HD for converison back for real-time processing.

You can do what you want to do.

September 20th, 2003, 02:32 AM	#48
Jay Nemeth Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 64	RAM speed David, I'm trying to understand the RAM speed requirements. I am not finding RAM listed as 1066 RDRAM and only finding DDR rated at 400mhz. Do you get the 800mhz DDR rating because you use 2 channels of 400? Where does PC2700 fit into the whole mix? Is that fast enough? Are 7200 RPM drives that are ATA 100 OK, or do they need to be SATA? I'm not very computer savvy unfortunately. Thanks, Jay

September 20th, 2003, 10:55 AM	#49
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: RAM speed <<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : David, I'm trying to understand the RAM speed requirements. I am not finding RAM listed as 1066 RDRAM and only finding DDR rated at 400mhz. -->>> 1066 RDRAM is now out I guess (last year fastest memory.) If you have a PC 6-18 months old it might be using this RAM -- it is still pretty fast -- effective 533MHz RAM. <<<--Do you get the 800mhz DDR rating because you use 2 channels of 400? Where does PC2700 fit into the whole mix? Is that fast enough? -->>> You are correct, 800MHz is the effective speed of dual 400MHz DDR. These days except no less than Dual DDR 400 on an 800MHz FSB (Front Side Bus.) This is very common now -- not too hard to get. PC2700 is effective 333MHz RAM. <<<--Are 7200 RPM drives that are ATA 100 OK, or do they need to be SATA? -->>> SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine. <<<--I'm not very computer savvy unfortunately.-->>> It changes all the time. All the above was new to everyone a few months ago.

September 20th, 2003, 07:49 PM	#51
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Re: Re: RAM speed <<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : You are correct, 800MHz is the effective speed of dual 400MHz DDR. -->>> OK, that's now clear. Pairs of RAM chips. <<<-- SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine. -->>> Looks like Dell offers only 2 choices: 1. one 200GB 7200rpm ATA100 drive 2. one 80GB 7200rpm drive (not clear if this is the Boot drive, which it should be + audio) PLUS a RAID of two 100GB ATA100 7200rpm drives. (I asume it's a MB RAID controller.) Now let's assume a 2.6GHz or 2.8GHz HT P4 and 512MB RAM. Simple question, how many streams with disk config #1 verses #2. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 21st, 2003, 10:47 AM	#53
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: Re: Re: RAM speed <<<--DN: SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine. -->>> SM: Looks like Dell offers only 2 choices: SM: 1. one 200GB 7200rpm ATA100 drive SM: 2. one 80GB 7200rpm drive (not clear if this is the Boot drive, which it should be + audio) PLUS a RAID of two 100GB ATA100 7200rpm drives. (I asume it's a MB RAID controller.) SM: Now let's assume a 2.6GHz or 2.8GHz HT P4 and 512MB RAM. SM: Simple question, how many streams with disk config #1 verses #2. Configuration #1 will give two video streams (disk I/O bound) but will able to apply many filters, and multiple titles tracks. Config. #2 will do up to four streams for video.

September 21st, 2003, 06:56 PM	#56
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	And my last post is gone too. Did I mess something up? I assumed HDV was NON Drop Frame. But Aspect HD uses Drop Frame. Which is it? __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 16th, 2003, 02:36 AM	#46
Jay Nemeth Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 64	A couple questions about the Matrox P750. If I understand correctly, it will downconvert the 720/30p signal to NTSC 480/60i to be viewed on a 16:9 capable NTSC monitor? Is this simply a conversion of one of the "would be" rgb monitors into TV scan rate? My next question is, could one of the monitor channels be driven at progressive 1280 x 720 with a 60hz refresh rate and feed a true HDTV monitor that accepted RGB? Would it be actual HD video with the proper color gamut, or just a facsimile of a "full screen" computer monitor signal? I hope these questions make sense. I'm just trying to see if there is a way to scrub and see the actual color corrected image with full detail accurately and in the way it will look when it is output to DVHS. Jay

September 16th, 2003, 09:42 AM	#47
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : A couple questions about the Matrox P750. If I understand correctly, it will downconvert the 720/30p signal to NTSC 480/60i to be viewed on a 16:9 capable NTSC monitor? Is this simply a conversion of one of the "would be" rgb monitors into TV scan rate?-->>> The Maxtrox P750 correctly downconverts to 4:3 NTSC (S_Video) displays via letterboxing, or it can output to an native 16:9 capable NTSC display. <<<--My next question is, could one of the monitor channels be driven at progressive 1280 x 720 with a 60hz refresh rate and feed a true HDTV monitor that accepted RGB? Would it be actual HD video with the proper color gamut, or just a facsimile of a "full screen" computer monitor signal?--->>> The DVI outputs of the P750 would be same a the computer monitor -- I think. I'm unsure if there are differences between the DVI on HDTV and the DVI output from the Maxtrox card. You should email Maxtox for details.

September 20th, 2003, 05:49 PM	#50
Jay Nemeth Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 64	So, if I'm building a box from the ground up, should I use PC3600 ram since it's a little faster? Or is there a limitation because the FSB is 800mhz on the processor? I already have a 200 gig 7200 rpm drive, if that is enough space for me, could I go get another 200 gig and do a RAID 1 to mirror and backup? Or is the RAID 0 a neccessity? How about RAID 0+1? Also, does Aspect HD support batch capture like Premeire would if it was doing the capturing? And lastly, does the digitizing retain the original timecode from the camera? Thanks in advance, Jay

September 21st, 2003, 10:43 AM	#52
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Steve, someone changed my last post completely, I had to delete it. All I the info I posted in response to Jay had be removed.

September 21st, 2003, 02:11 PM	#54
Jay Nemeth Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 64	<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : Steve, someone changed my last post completely, I had to delete it. All I the info I posted in response to Jay had be removed. -->>> Yea, that was strange, there were quotes from a post that didn't even exist and was confusing. Hopefully this thread can be a reference for others who are building a box for use with Aspect HD. David, if you get a chance, can you re-answer those previous questions? Thanks, Jay

September 21st, 2003, 02:26 PM	#55
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Trying again :) <<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : So, if I'm building a box from the ground up, should I use PC3600 ram since it's a little faster? Or is there a limitation because the FSB is 800mhz on the processor? -->>> You need to combine Dual channel 400Mhz DDR PC3600, with a P4 with an 800Mhz FSB. The resulting memory speed is 2.4 times faster than a standard PC2700 system. <<<--I already have a 200 gig 7200 rpm drive, if that is enough space for me, could I go get another 200 gig and do a RAID 1 to mirror and backup? Or is the RAID 0 a neccessity? How about RAID 0+1?-->>> RAID 0 is the only low cost way to double your disk performance. A single drive will give you dual stream, a RAID-0 setup should give you 4 streams. <<<--Also, does Aspect HD support batch capture like Premeire would if it was doing the capturing? And lastly, does the digitizing retain the original timecode from the camera? -->>> No, not in the current Aspect HD release.

September 21st, 2003, 07:04 PM	#57
Andre Jesmanowicz Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Milwaukee WI Posts: 36	Till now I use huffyuv avis to do HD editing. I need these files to do some processing in VirtualDub, mainly to correct for camera vibrations. Will Aspect avi files work with VirtualDub? It means - are these files usable out of the P6.5? __________________ Andre

September 21st, 2003, 08:08 PM	#58
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Re: Re: Re: Re: RAM speed <<<-- Originally posted by David Configuration #1 will give two video streams (disk I/O bound) but will able to apply many filters, and multiple titles tracks. -->>> Thank you. Looks like 2.4GHz, 800FSB, dual channel 400MHz RAM, and single ATA100 drive works fine for 2 streams. But will this handle the on-the-file CAPTURE & CONVERT? And, how much disk space is needed to hold 1 hour of capture--using the C & C option? Using MAX quality setting. Using NORMAL quality setting? __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 22nd, 2003, 09:27 AM	#59
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : And my last post is gone too. Did I mess something up?-->>> I think you accidently edited my message, deleting most of it content. <<<--I assumed HDV was NON Drop Frame. But Aspect HD uses Drop Frame. Which is it? -->>> Drop frame vs Non Drop Frame is not the issue (an easy convert if is was.) It was more technical, I don't have the info on hand.

September 22nd, 2003, 09:32 AM	#60
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	<<<-- Originally posted by Andre Jesmanowicz : Till now I use huffyuv avis to do HD editing. I need these files to do some processing in VirtualDub, mainly to correct for camera vibrations. Will Aspect avi files work with VirtualDub? It means - are these files usable out of the P6.5? -->>> Aspect HD's AVI do load fine within VirtualDub (and any PC program that supports VFW or DirectShow.) VirtualDub can't export into CFHD (the CineForm codec) however you can still use HUFFYUV on ouput, importing those AVIs into Aspect HD for converison back for real-time processing. You can do what you want to do.