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Old April 10th, 2009, 10:03 AM   #1
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Rendering to CineForm AVI from After Effects

I'm trying to render my AE CS3 comp to a CineForm AVI.

I've purchased Neo Scene and that works great.

However when I bring one of my CineForm AVIs (HDV format 1080i) into After Effects and simply render it back out to a CineForm AVI (using Upper Field first in the AE render settings and for the CineForm codec settings I have interlaced turned on)...my footage looks blurry as if it's been deinterlaced or something. This is without applying any compositing to my footage, I simply placed it into a new comp in AE.

Please note, I also checked the interpret footage settings for the AVI and it's set to Upper Field First and the frame rate is also correct (29.97).

Any tips for rendering from After Effects?

FYI - I have made some comps using the same settings (HDV 1080i) - the comps are strictly graphics and text - no video footage - and rendered them using Upper Field First from AE to the CineForm AVI format and they look great.

Thanks

-Charley
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Old April 10th, 2009, 05:25 PM   #2
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Charley,
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but
- When you select to output the CF avi format, are you also clicking the "configure" button and alongside in the dialog box and making sure the setting is on "high"?

I assume it to be true that every "pass" of the CF encoder on video material will downgrade it a bit more, so setting it to high would give at least somewhat better results than a "medium" setting.

I personally have been having nightmares of the dreaded "frame buffer errors" in AE, when writing out to CF avi format. But I think this is not related to CF itself, must be the way that everything works in CS4 - rather sloppy.

So I just render to uncompressed and then will re-encode to CF when doing final Nle assembly.

Cheers
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Old April 10th, 2009, 05:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Clyde DeSouza View Post
Charley,
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but
- When you select to output the CF avi format, are you also clicking the "configure" button and alongside in the dialog box and making sure the setting is on "high"?

I assume it to be true that every "pass" of the CF encoder on video material will downgrade it a bit more, so setting it to high would give at least somewhat better results than a "medium" setting.

I personally have been having nightmares of the dreaded "frame buffer errors" in AE, when writing out to CF avi format. But I think this is not related to CF itself, must be the way that everything works in CS4 - rather sloppy.

So I just render to uncompressed and then will re-encode to CF when doing final Nle assembly.

Cheers
I will give the high setting a try - I did have it set to medium quality.

I'm using AE CS3 - haven't upgraded to CS4 yet.

I will also try rendering to an uncompressed AVI and then converting it back to CineForm AVI.


Thank you Clyde.
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Old April 10th, 2009, 05:51 PM   #4
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Clyde,

What format do you render to uncompressed before going back to CineForm AVI? I tried uncompressed AVI however using Neo Scene there is no option to convert an AVI file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clyde DeSouza View Post
Charley,
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but
- When you select to output the CF avi format, are you also clicking the "configure" button and alongside in the dialog box and making sure the setting is on "high"?

I assume it to be true that every "pass" of the CF encoder on video material will downgrade it a bit more, so setting it to high would give at least somewhat better results than a "medium" setting.

I personally have been having nightmares of the dreaded "frame buffer errors" in AE, when writing out to CF avi format. But I think this is not related to CF itself, must be the way that everything works in CS4 - rather sloppy.

So I just render to uncompressed and then will re-encode to CF when doing final Nle assembly.

Cheers
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Old April 10th, 2009, 07:09 PM   #5
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FYI - The flickering occurs whether I have the render on Medium or High output to the CineForm AVI format.

When I look at it with Neo Scene Player's option on Quality I see the flickering, however when it's set to Fast, the flickering isn't visible.
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Old April 10th, 2009, 07:22 PM   #6
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It is likely a video card display issue and the files are fine. Load in VirtaulDub to confirm the files are OK.
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Old April 10th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #7
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It is likely a video card display issue and the files are fine. Load in VirtaulDub to confirm the files are OK.
David,

I've reviewed the files on two systems - one running Windows XP Pro and my brand new system running Windows Vista 64-bit - I see the same issue on both computers - both running separate displays.

I've even taken my HDV footage and converted it down to SD DVD format, burned it to DVD and tested it on several Television screens and the flicker is visible.
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Old April 10th, 2009, 08:28 PM   #8
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Please try VirtualDub, this all sounds like interlaced issues, first you have to look at the data pixel for pixel -- you have not done that yet. Then contact support if there is visible issue in VirtualDub.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 12:00 AM   #9
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Please try VirtualDub, this all sounds like interlaced issues, first you have to look at the data pixel for pixel -- you have not done that yet. Then contact support if there is visible issue in VirtualDub.
David,

Is there anything specific I should check for when I open my AVI file in Virtual Dub?

-Charley
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Old April 11th, 2009, 11:02 AM   #10
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Fields should be separate (you have confirm using the deinterlace filters) and in the correct order. If the fields are fine, the issue is only presentation on the graphics card(s).
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Old April 11th, 2009, 02:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by David Newman View Post
Fields should be separate (you have confirm using the deinterlace filters) and in the correct order. If the fields are fine, the issue is only presentation on the graphics card(s).
David,

FYI - the original CineForm AVI clips playback perfectly before I render them through After Effects - no flicker at all. I don't understand why it's changing after that...
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Old April 11th, 2009, 02:15 PM   #12
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And you need to see what mistake was made. Don't be so unwilling to find out for yourself. Use VirtualDub, and contact support.
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Old April 11th, 2009, 03:35 PM   #13
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And you need to see what mistake was made. Don't be so unwilling to find out for yourself. Use VirtualDub, and contact support.
Thanks David. I do have a request into support, however I thought I would check in on the forum in case anyone has an experience with this issue. I will keep on, keepin' on.

-Charley
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Old April 12th, 2009, 02:00 AM   #14
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Quote.."
What format do you render to uncompressed before going back to CineForm AVI? I tried uncompressed AVI however using Neo Scene there is no option to convert an AVI file..."

Charley , i dont understand this line. You can convert avi files from the Neoscene converter software cant you? located mostly at C:\Program Files\CineForm\Neo Scene\HDLink.exe

Also I think it's exactly what David is saying, you probably have Interlace issues.

What could be happening is that your avi is originally in interlaced format, you bring it into AE or Premiere, and your output settings in AE or Premiere may have been set to interlaced with the wrong field order than what your original footage is? (even though you have siad its top field first in interpret footage, no harm in trying it the other way around).
further to this when you choose the cineform codec for output (from within AE) check your configure codec button and see what it is set for? automatic, progressive or interlaced..

Try Automatic in the CF codec and see if it works.

I'm only guessing that there is mis-match in interlace field order between your selections in AE's basic output settings for interlace/progressive and your selection of the CF codec interlace options.

Again this is just a guess and worth looking into,
Hope it sorts out
Regards
Clyde
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