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Old April 27th, 2009, 08:47 PM   #1
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Vegas 9 Compatibility

Given that Vegas 9 is coming out in early May, can we get a quick summary of what Cineform products will be immediately compatible with that upgrade? My specific problem may be that I'm still using Neo HDV... will this now be the time that Neo HDV users will need to choose either NeoScene or NeoHD? If we DO upgrade to NeoHD now (v3), will we fit within the timeframe that we'll get a free v4 upgrade when it comes out shortly?

Last edited by James Campbell; April 27th, 2009 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Added question
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Old April 28th, 2009, 11:42 PM   #2
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We have a long-standing good relationship with the Vegas team and we hope to have support in the future. Currently the Vegas AVI api will not read 32-bit components under 64-bit. The proper solution is a 64-bit version of our SDK that is integrated into Vegas. We talked with the Sony team about strategies at NAB, but it is not there yet.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 08:30 AM   #3
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So what your saying is that all Cineform products will not work with Vegas 9 (64bit Version)? I guess I should have expected that given Cineform doesn't work with Vegas 8.1. Disappointing.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 09:20 AM   #4
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Old April 29th, 2009, 12:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Duckworth View Post
So what your saying is that all Cineform products will not work with Vegas 9 (64bit Version)? I guess I should have expected that given Cineform doesn't work with Vegas 8.1. Disappointing.
Agreed. It's disappointing when Vegas moved to 64 bit that they didn't ensure compatibility with the the larger 32-bit world. So it takes time to move the existing world to 64 bit.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 02:29 PM   #6
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Old April 30th, 2009, 08:04 AM   #7
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The sad thing is that Vegas 8.1 (64 bit) will read and write CFHD MOV files properly. The problem is that the Vegas 8.1 AVI plug-in only works with 64 bit codecs, while the remaining plug-ins work fine with 32 bit codecs. It seems like SCS could have made a simple change with Vegas 9.0 64 bit to allow access to 32 bit codecs and the AVI wrapper.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #8
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Just for the hell of it, I tried a 64-bit build of the Video for Window codec, expecting that it would requires a many many hours/days of fixes, and the damn thing just worked. I guess in the near future we will be support 64-bit Vegas after all (with the delay of an API change -- which we still want to get done.)

P.S. I've only tested this with the 64-bit VirtualDub, but I expect Vegas 8.1 & 9 64-bit will work fine.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 04:42 PM   #9
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Hey, you never know until you try.
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Old May 11th, 2009, 04:43 PM   #10
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David Newman.... I love Cineform and don't want to be an annoying whiner on these forums, but it really hurts to read your post.

So... after 8 months of Vegas 8.1 NOT working with Cineform.... just for the hell of it, you compiled a 64 bit version of the Cineform VfW codec and it worked?!?! Just for the hell of it? Not because some of your customers have been desperately requesting it so they can take advantage of their 64 bit systems?

Please, please, please... Make a working 64 bit version of your Cineform codec a priority! Because no matter what you want me to believe, your post shows that it has not been important to anyone at Cineform at all.
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Old May 11th, 2009, 05:46 PM   #11
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I think you are underestimating what is required to recompile code from 32 bit to 64 bit. Usually, it doesn't work, just by changing the target OS type. More often than not, it requires considerable rewriting and debugging and sometimes it's just better to ditch the 32 bit code and start from scratch. You should keep in mind also that the vast majority of PC-based A/V software uses the DirectShow interface to access filters and codecs. Sony Vegas is one of the few common programs left (VirtualDub is the other and that's freeware) that still uses the old Video for Windows interface.

Then you have to consider both that most people are still using the 32 bit version of Vegas and that CFHD MOV files work okay in the 64 bit version of Vegas. Lastly, it is really the fault of SCS that 64 bit Vegas won't use 32 bit codecs embedded in an AVI wrapper. They could have updated the AVI plugins that import and render, but they chose to only allow 64 bit codecs to be used with the AVI wrapper. Vegas 64 bit comes with a variety of built-in 32 bit codecs (h.264, MPEG2, etc.) and they all work fine.

All that taken into account, I think it's remarkable that Cineform was been responsive enough to even try to make a 64 bit VFW codec. That said, it's worth keep up the pressure, because if no one complains, then it appears there is no demand for the product.
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Old May 11th, 2009, 09:51 PM   #12
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Vegas 9 32-bit

David,
Just to follow up with your comment in a different post (... "Vegas broke compatibility with our 32-bit modes"), does this mean that with Vegas 9 32-bit, there will be problems currently? Because several of us are seeing this with Neo HDV files previewing within V9 (Sony Creative Software - Forums - Vegas Pro - Video Messages).

Is our only answer to use Vegas 8 if we have Cineform files until the compatibility with 32-bit is repaired? I'm working on a 2 hour documentary that I'd love to be able to work on in Vegas 9 32-bit, because I'm having problems rendering in Vegas 8 due to the large amount of footage/photos/etc. I have about 70 hours of Cineform HDV files that it seems there's no way I can currently use them in Vegas 9. Unless Vegas 9 can work with Cineform, I'm stuck finishing this documentary in Vegas 8.

Last edited by James Campbell; May 11th, 2009 at 10:01 PM. Reason: Added comment
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Old May 11th, 2009, 11:40 PM   #13
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James, as Jay properly points out CineForm MOV files seem to work in Vegas 9. I'd take a handful of your AVI files and rewrap them to MOV using HD Link. Then I'd test them in Vegas 9 to verify that they work for you. If they do you could consider rewrapping all of your material to MOV. Yes that's a pain in the a**, but rewrapping is quite fast - almost as fast as a file copy.

We haven't done any extensive testing in Vegas 9 yet (with MOV) because most Windows users are doing AVI work, and we know AVI doesn't work right now.

We had a good meeting with the Sony people at NAB and there is mutual desire to get this finished. But we need to get through the PPro importer problems first....
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Old May 12th, 2009, 05:30 AM   #14
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David,
I very much appreciate your information here. I referenced it in a post on the Vegas forum here: Sony Creative Software - Forums - Vegas Pro - Video Messages, and recommended that all Vegas users submit a ticket to request that Sony do all they can on their part to work on this compatibility. I know there are a whole lot of Vegas users that have Cineform in their workflow. I can't imagine why they didn't address this prior to release. As I stated in my Vegas post, I believe this is poor form on Sony's part to not make this known. Unless they're indicating by this that they're backing away from the support for Cineform intermediates, despite what they've told you at NAB. It'll be interesting how this plays out. These are the issues that make strong supporters back off of a piece of software... not a good idea in these days of many options.
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Old May 12th, 2009, 11:47 AM   #15
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I use Cineform files extensively for archiving, they are a great balance between image quality and file size. I installed Vegas v9 32-bit yesterday and rendering to the Neo Scene Cineform codec is no longer an option. Cineform support in Vegas is absolutely critical to my workflow. This is a deal breaker for me and Vegas v9.

All my other 32-bit VFW codecs (Lagarith, HuffYUV, Main Concept DV25 & DV50 etc.) seem to work. Do I need to reinstall Neo Scene or is there some fundamental incompatibility between the new Vegas v9 32-bit version and the VFW Neo Scene codec?
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