Question for David: proDAD Mercalli Compatability at DVinfo.net

Rick Casillas · June 2nd, 2009, 09:35 PM

David,

I know we lose resolution when removing shake from a video with 3RD party products like Mercalli.

I downloded a trial version and installed in in PP CS4, then applied the anti-shake effect (mercalli) to remove handheld shakes. The video was impressively stable and when I rendered it out using cineform again it looked pretty good, but I can't tell how much quality loss has been done.

My question is, how much degradation am I getting by taking a cineform intermidiate and appliying effects, then rendering/exporting it out with the AME using cineform codec again?

I was impressed with proDAD's Mercalli, I only wish they had a stand alone application to just remove shake.

Thanks,

Rick C.

David Newman · June 2nd, 2009, 09:44 PM

Nothing your will every see -- why you use an intermediate format.

Rick Casillas · June 2nd, 2009, 10:21 PM

Thanks David.

Jay Bloomfield · June 3rd, 2009, 03:15 PM

Rick,

If you decide to purchase the entire CS4 Suite, you will also get After Effects CS4, which comes with Mocha for AE. Mocha is a technically impressive planar (2.5D) tracking system:

Imagineer Systems - Products

Once you learn it, you won't want to go back to any point tracking system for image stabilization or anything else. BTW, Mocha works fine with Cineform AVI files.

J

Rick Casillas · June 3rd, 2009, 04:25 PM

Jay,

I already own the complete Adobe Production CS4 suite. But I did not know Mocha was included.

I guess I am going to have to install and play with it. Is this hard to learn? Mercalli is a simple drag and drop effect and seems to do a good job.

Thanks,

Rick C.

Jay Bloomfield · June 3rd, 2009, 05:14 PM

No, it's not hard to learn the basics. But it's so powerful, that you really need to study the tutorials to master all the fine points:

http://www.imagineersystems.com/supp...cha/tutorials/

Imagineer Systems on Vimeo
(This Vimeo channel contains user-generated examples and tutorials)

After personally bumbling along for years with most of the Windows-based trackers (Mercalli, Deshaker, AE's built-in point tracker, etc.), I was shocked at how well that Mocha did with difficult tracks. The free version of Mocha is already installed with CS4 and you should have a shortcut to it in the Windows Start Menu:

Adobe After Effects CS4 * Tracking and stabilizing motion

The free version that comes with CS4 is 1.x. There is a new version (2.x) on the Imagineer website and the upgrade from V1 to V2 was selling for something reasonable a while back.

Rick Casillas · June 6th, 2009, 12:49 AM

Jay,

After evaluating Mocha, I came to the conclusion that it is a great tracker tool. However, I think Mercalli is still faster, easier, and the results are quite good. It is almost brainless. I am only talking about motion/stabilization removal, not tracking.

So, I think Mecalli is still worth the $ 119. It runs on PP just fine, while, Mocha only runs on AE.

I will keep playing with them, but so far I am convinced that Mecalli will be a good addition to my workflow for those cases where I need to remove some shake from the footage.

Rick C.

Jay Bloomfield · June 6th, 2009, 06:39 PM

I have both, so I won't disagree. What you'll find is you will eventually run into a stabilization issue that Mercalli will not handle and Mocha will.

June 2nd, 2009, 09:35 PM	#1
Rick Casillas Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 47	Question for David: proDAD Mercalli Compatability David, I know we lose resolution when removing shake from a video with 3RD party products like Mercalli. I downloded a trial version and installed in in PP CS4, then applied the anti-shake effect (mercalli) to remove handheld shakes. The video was impressively stable and when I rendered it out using cineform again it looked pretty good, but I can't tell how much quality loss has been done. My question is, how much degradation am I getting by taking a cineform intermidiate and appliying effects, then rendering/exporting it out with the AME using cineform codec again? I was impressed with proDAD's Mercalli, I only wish they had a stand alone application to just remove shake. Thanks, Rick C.

June 2nd, 2009, 09:44 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Nothing your will every see -- why you use an intermediate format. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 2nd, 2009, 10:21 PM	#3
Rick Casillas Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 47	Thanks David.

June 3rd, 2009, 03:15 PM	#4
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	Rick, If you decide to purchase the entire CS4 Suite, you will also get After Effects CS4, which comes with Mocha for AE. Mocha is a technically impressive planar (2.5D) tracking system: Imagineer Systems - Products Once you learn it, you won't want to go back to any point tracking system for image stabilization or anything else. BTW, Mocha works fine with Cineform AVI files. J

June 3rd, 2009, 04:25 PM	#5
Rick Casillas Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 47	Jay, I already own the complete Adobe Production CS4 suite. But I did not know Mocha was included. I guess I am going to have to install and play with it. Is this hard to learn? Mercalli is a simple drag and drop effect and seems to do a good job. Thanks, Rick C.

June 3rd, 2009, 05:14 PM	#6
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	No, it's not hard to learn the basics. But it's so powerful, that you really need to study the tutorials to master all the fine points: http://www.imagineersystems.com/supp...cha/tutorials/ Imagineer Systems on Vimeo (This Vimeo channel contains user-generated examples and tutorials) After personally bumbling along for years with most of the Windows-based trackers (Mercalli, Deshaker, AE's built-in point tracker, etc.), I was shocked at how well that Mocha did with difficult tracks. The free version of Mocha is already installed with CS4 and you should have a shortcut to it in the Windows Start Menu: Adobe After Effects CS4 * Tracking and stabilizing motion The free version that comes with CS4 is 1.x. There is a new version (2.x) on the Imagineer website and the upgrade from V1 to V2 was selling for something reasonable a while back.

June 6th, 2009, 12:49 AM	#7
Rick Casillas Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 47	Jay, After evaluating Mocha, I came to the conclusion that it is a great tracker tool. However, I think Mercalli is still faster, easier, and the results are quite good. It is almost brainless. I am only talking about motion/stabilization removal, not tracking. So, I think Mecalli is still worth the $ 119. It runs on PP just fine, while, Mocha only runs on AE. I will keep playing with them, but so far I am convinced that Mecalli will be a good addition to my workflow for those cases where I need to remove some shake from the footage. Rick C.

June 6th, 2009, 06:39 PM	#8
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	I have both, so I won't disagree. What you'll find is you will eventually run into a stabilization issue that Mercalli will not handle and Mocha will.