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Old August 31st, 2009, 06:31 PM   #1
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NeoScene, FCP 7, AVCHD and Log and Transfer workflow question/s

All of the above apply to my situation. I want to be able to smoothly edit my AVCHD clips in FCP 7 (which I am a noob). I am familiar with Neo from using it on a PC with Vegas. It works great with the sony software! I purchased the license for Mac with it in mind that I might be doing some back and forth with FCP and Vegas since I know that app very well.

At first I skipped log and transfer opting to use Neo. Turns out the cineform codec can't be natively edited on the timeline for some reason. Maybe I have it wrong but any time I add a transition, correct color or use smoothcam I can't play it back till I render the clip. Apparently only prores22 can do that. When I manage to import via Log and Transfer I can encode to prores and edit on the timeline without having to render everything all the time.

I see in the configuration setting within Neo I can select Apple Prores22 but it seems that when I use Neo to import that format I still have to render all the time as if I was using the neo codec.

Log and Transfer is tragically inconsistent. Some of my memory cards will show up but most give an error about not having the correct file structure or something. All these cards work fine in Neo (mac/pc) and the Pixela software (pc) that came with the camera. For some reason Log and Transfer can't do anything with them.

Am I grossly misunderstanding something? I have only had FCP for a week and most of that time has been just trying to get clips imported and playing consistantly. I want to color correct, use smooth cam and do some titling. So far I'm having trouble with the front door.

Can I use Neo to encode Apple Prores22? Can I edit cineform files in FCP without constantly re-rendering after every change by changing settings within FCP? At this point I am not trying to mix any media on the timeline. One camera type, one file type.

Sorry this is so flippin' long/

William
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:17 PM   #2
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FCP 7 is just like FCP 6 in only recognizing Apple codecs as capable of real-time playback. This means that you will need to render whenever you make a change with a filter or transition.
You should be able to play the ProRes HQ without rendering. What are your timeline settings?
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Old August 31st, 2009, 08:12 PM   #3
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Here's the Cineform Tech Note on FCP Sequence Settings. It's recommended that the compressor is set to ProRes in your sequence settings. Hope that might help.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 08:19 PM   #4
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FYI, I've also experience the Log & Transfer weirdness with AVCHD files. Sometimes it sees the files just fine, then sometimes it can't, don't know why. A re-boot / trash the preferences helps me out, but it is a weird bug that I cannot re-create, just seems to randomly happen.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 09:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Davidson View Post
FCP 7 is just like FCP 6 in only recognizing Apple codecs as capable of real-time playback. This means that you will need to render whenever you make a change with a filter or transition.
You should be able to play the ProRes HQ without rendering. What are your timeline settings?
My timeline settings are generally set to whatever the source file dictates when I add it to the timeline or canvas. I have successfully created apple prores files and worked with them on the timeline. It's generally pleasant enough to work that way and the occasional rendering is not such a big deal.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 09:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Wisniewski View Post
FYI, I've also experience the Log & Transfer weirdness with AVCHD files. Sometimes it sees the files just fine, then sometimes it can't, don't know why. A re-boot / trash the preferences helps me out, but it is a weird bug that I cannot re-create, just seems to randomly happen.

Currently I have 3 cards that work every time I open Log and Transfer I have 5 that don't show up. I have not tried formatting and reshooting the working cards yet to see if it's card dependent or something about the way the file structure gets created on the card. Because I have cards that work consistently and some that don't I haven't tried trashing the preferences yet.

My next step is to make sure I have all the clips from the non-working (in Log and Transfer) cards backed up on my PC and actually format the cards rather than just erase the clips. It has been suggested that I make a disk image of the cards that don't work and try mounting the image to see of L&T can see that.

Can Neo be used to make Apple ProRes files from my memory cards?
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Old August 31st, 2009, 10:09 PM   #7
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As I thought, Cineform can create Apple ProRes files. Other than some of the file management features in L&T is there any advantage to the file ProRes File it creates? I think Neo is only capable of ProRes 422 and not HQ but I could be wrong. I'm not at home with the machine that has Neo Activated.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 10:35 PM   #8
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Produces ProRes HQ. Neo has the advantage of single step pulldown removal for 24p sources. Extras depend on which Neo license you have.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 10:59 PM   #9
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Produces ProRes HQ. Neo has the advantage of single step pulldown removal for 24p sources. Extras depend on which Neo license you have.
Neoscene is the license I own.

Yes, the 24p pulldown was my original motivation to purchase last year.

I guess I'm going to just commit to developing a workflow around Neoscene. I have almost 1TB of already imported AVCHD from the last 10 months that I know Neoscene can "see". I just need to get my FCP settings optimized for working this way.

Thanks for the info.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 12:02 AM   #10
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I asked about the settings since FCP 6 was odd with its 23.976 frame rate requirements. The correct frame rate would be 24000/1001 per frame, but for some reason Apple and FCP chose 23976/1000. In the past, if you took a QuickTime movie generated on a Windows machine with the 24000/1001 frame rate, it would require a render. NeoScene on Mac follows the Apple/FCP standard of 23976/1000. If this has been changed, it will now require a render even with ProRes.
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