NeoScene to remove pulldown from V1U HDV files on Mac? at DVinfo.net

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Old August 31st, 2009, 08:24 PM   #1
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NeoScene to remove pulldown from V1U HDV files on Mac?

I'm playing around with a trial version of NeoScene; I'm looking for an alternative to my current workflow for dealing with my 24P HDV footage:
1. using MPegStreamclip to convert M2T file to Quicktime AIC format
2. removing 3:2 pulldown using Cinema tools
3. Editing in real time on the FCP timeline

As far as I can tell, NeoScene is meant to accomplish stages #1 and #2 above in one go, but the pulldown removal is flawed (I can see combing on some frames, absent when I use the above workflow. Can anyone point me to a tutorial or provide advice about using NeoScene for this purpose?

Also, I noticed that it won't create ProRes HQ higher than medium quality?

Many thanks
Greg
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Old August 31st, 2009, 09:39 PM   #2
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ProRES HQ doesn't have multiple quality settings (only HQ and not, we only do HQ.) It certainly does remove pulldown correctly, however it learns the pulldown on the fly, so it can take an average of 8 frames to detect the pulldown. If you see issues way into a clip, upload you source to ftp://ftp.cineform.com/pub/incoming and submit a trouble ticket with support, as we are not currently aware of any pulldown issues (we use the V1U at the office without issue.)
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Old September 1st, 2009, 07:32 AM   #3
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David, thanks for the fast response. From a public relations perspective, the slider should probably be stuck at "high" for the ProRes conversion rather than medium or some kind of explanation as you've given me on the panel. Am I correct in thinking that the cineform codec doesn't display in realtime on the FCP timeline unless its rendered? I could play the ProRes HQ output immediately but not the CF 422 from the timeline.

Alo, this from the FAQ:
NOTE: Mac will only interpret 10-bit CineForm files as having 8 bits of arithmetic precision. To have your 10-bit AVI files interpreted as 10 bits in depth you'll need to rewrap them to MOV files. Rewrapping is a feature that is included with Neo HD (not Neo Scene).
Does this mean that I'd be better off converting to ProRes HQ, since that's really 10-bit?

Thanks again (and isn't Solana Beach a cool place - used to live there before I was married!)
Greg

Last edited by Greg Quinn; September 1st, 2009 at 09:26 AM.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 10:46 AM   #4
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CineForm is RT in FCP, if the Sequence is set to the CineForm codec. When you add you first clip on the timeline this should occur automatically, as FCP offers to convert the sequence to the optimal format.

That FAQ only related to PC media mored to the PC, FCP doesn't handle AVIs well, but when you use the Mac tools you get MOVs not AVIs. So no issue.

While CineForm is higher quality than ProRES, there are reasons to use ProRES under FCP. FCP only enables real-time transition on native formats, not formats used through QuickTime. This is unfortunate, as CineForm compression would be alround a better solution if Apple would open the application to third parties. So use ProRES is FCP is you main tools, use CineForm for FX heavy work, and if use Neo HD/4K then use CineForm to get the advantages of First Light.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 11:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Newman View Post
While CineForm is higher quality than ProRES, there are reasons to use ProRES under FCP. FCP only enables real-time transition on native formats, not formats used through QuickTime.
Thanks for the clarification David; some final questions:

1. When you say that transitions won't play back in real time, you mean that they won't play back RT without first rendering the transition? I'm not in front of my editing box right now, but I thought that transitions require some rendering anyway in FCP, or they look degraded?
2. In the FAQ it mentions that the Mac version of the CF codec isn't multithreaded yet - what is the ETA for that?
3. I'd like to use CF 422 on the timeline if possible, if only because ProRes 422 (HQ) files seem to be almost twice the size of the CF 422 files; in general, if I use CF 422 in the sequence, does that require more horsepower than using ProRes HQ? Does effects rendering (for example, I use the Neat Video plugin a great deal) take longer with the CF codec than with ProRes HQ?
4. Is CF 422 a good choice if I send clips to Shake?

Many thanks
Greg
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Old September 1st, 2009, 11:48 AM   #6
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1. Yes. Render transitions for playback, only the native modes play transitions in preview.
2. That FAQ is old (can you point out where?) All multi-threaded now.
3. I don't you will experience any significant performance difference with thirdy party plugin renders.
4. Yes.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 04:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Newman View Post
That FAQ is old (can you point out where?)
Thanks David; the info about multithreading is from your estore site:
Final Cut Pro Sequence Settings

BTW, I don't totally understand the business logic of how the CineForm website can be selling downloads of NeoScene at $129 and VideoGuys sell the same download 25% cheaper at $99 (I used VideoGuys!); that's quite a price difference.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 04:32 PM   #8
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We are happy that VideoGuys promote to a different market, and we don't price compete with our own channel. We set the MSRP, but if a reseller can handle the reduced margin, that is up to them. We still sell more units at the full MSRP, so VideoGuys adds to what has been a large market.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 04:46 PM   #9
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And good luck to the both of you (CineForm and VideoGuys); NeoScene seems like a great product.
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Old September 3rd, 2009, 03:01 PM   #10
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OK, after having purchased the product and playing around with it, it seems very useful. A few comments:

1. ProRes HQ is overkill for HDV conversion, and produces file sizes that are significantly larger than the non-HQ version. The Non-HQ version of ProRes should also be a choice
2. I have a quad core 3Ghz Mac pro and CF422 plays choppily on a CF-native FCP timeline; the codec needs to be optimized somehow.
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