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Old September 2nd, 2009, 11:27 PM   #1
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No Audio - No Longer Need Cineform!

I have a new install of Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit and installed the latest version of Neo Scene Version 1.3.6 and when I convert an *.m2ts file the video is there but no audio at all!

I play it with Windows Media Player and turn the volume way up and hear a stuttering sound. No voice, music or anything else.

Open the *.avi file in Vegas 8c and get the video only on the time-line. No audio track!

Apparently Neo Scene does not recognize the audio from the *.m2ts file.

It worked correctly with my old system.

I may just simply forget about Cineform and Neo Scene altogether because on my new system with the core I7 I can get full playback with Vegas even with a setting of 'best-full'. Something my old system could not do with 'draft-auto'.

The extra time converting is now wasted time! Also the render of a project with the *.m2ts files that is an hour long now takes a hair less than 30 minutes.

With that, why does anyone need to use Cineform anymore?

Danny Fye
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Old September 3rd, 2009, 01:03 AM   #2
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You are missing the point of the Cineform codec.
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Old September 3rd, 2009, 04:31 AM   #3
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Apparently you missed the part in the NeoScene documentation about needing to install the free third-party AC3 decoder.
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Old September 3rd, 2009, 07:57 PM   #4
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Hello,

Please try this
NOTE about Audio: If you are not properly converting audio, you may not have an AC3 decoder installed. Many software packages install an AC3 decoder, but if not, you can get a free AC3 decoder here: Free-Codecs.com :: Download AC3 Filter 1.63b : AC3 Filter is a DirectShow filter for AC3 decoding.


I think that will fix your audo issue. We use Cineform on high end big budget msuic videos/commercials shot on Super 16mm. The Cineform is not just the codec but the speed, versatality of the tools with-in Adobe Premiere cs3 using the Cineform RT engine.

We have the raids to do uncompressed, and we can always do uncompresssed 10 bit 422 1980x1080, but Cineform Prospect HD stands up just as good as uncompressed but more managable with a host of others features offered such as the HDLINK to downconvert to SD resolutions, frame-rate changes and so forth.

I hope that helps.

Leo

Last edited by Leo Baker; September 3rd, 2009 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Tyops
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Old September 4th, 2009, 07:26 AM   #5
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Why Cineform?

I love cineform and I have a fast computer:

Why do I still need it?

First Light
Great codec for After Effects
Edits like butter in PPCS3 (one day in PPCS4)
Great quality
HDLink
Great support!

Simon
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Old September 4th, 2009, 08:27 AM   #6
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I think Danny has a point. If his computer works just as fast and produces what he thinks is just as good results without Cineform, why does he need it.

I can't believe First Light is worth what Prospect HD costs.

I always thought Cineform's failure to include alpha channel capabilities for the "cheaper" programs was a pain since most of the time I couldn't use it in After Effects. The standard Cineform reason is that they structured their codec " for video capture and not editing."

I wonder how they came up with that decision.

Since I never upgraded from xppro and a quad core CPU with Premiere CS3, I find the HD Link handy for converting and editing AVCHD files. However, if I had an I7 with vista or Window7 and Premiere pro CS4, I could edit the same AVCHD files using free ware with supposed excellent results and it would be sans Cineform. CS4 even has Maximum Render quality which is supposedly quite good.

Premiere Pro doesn't seem to need Cineform and really why should they. No wonder Adobe isn't "co-operating" with Cineform.

As much as I've liked the idea of capturing HDV and converting AVCHD with HD link , unless they come up with some new ideas, once I get a new computer, I'll probably have to drop Cineform. The sad thing is that a lot of folks making or using the product are patting themselves on the back saying what a great job they're doing.

The more I think about it, Danny has a big point.

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Old September 4th, 2009, 10:19 AM   #7
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Rich, Where did that quote come from? I google searched you seem to be the originator. That is not our thinking all.

We known ever since founding the company that speed advantages alone would reduce over time as computers got faster and most user will settle for 1080i/p. Yet sales are increasing (even in this market,) and it workflow reasons not just the speed we offer. We have been migrating to higher-end tools and applicaitons, our new work in 3D and metadata management First Light is just the tip of the iceberg for what are doing. Some will move to the enhanced workflows, other will stick will the base features of Adobe/Apple, we expect that.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 11:33 AM   #8
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Newman,

I got the quote from here http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/cineform-...a-channel.html. See post #4.

Maybe you're right about the customer base which is obviously a business decision, but it seems you are migrating to a more professional base. Nothing wrong with that, but it probably won't fit with my needs.

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Old September 4th, 2009, 12:47 PM   #9
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The quote was out of context, HDLink was being discussed (that is designed to convert camera sources), it is different matter entirely whether alpha channel is enabled in the codec within consumer class tools. We have to separate the pros from the consumers somehow, as we are now all working in HD.

We simply lead the market, what we design for pro. use today with be in consumer grade tools in a year or so. Alpha channel may make it there, but frankly we get close to zero requests for it. CineForm 4444 is superior to the new ProRES 4444 (the only thing that attempts to compete) and that you need a FCP+$4000 Mac doggle to run -- so I think we are priced correctly.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Baker View Post
Hello,

Please try this
NOTE about Audio: If you are not properly converting audio, you may not have an AC3 decoder installed. Many software packages install an AC3 decoder, but if not, you can get a free AC3 decoder here: Free-Codecs.com :: Download AC3 Filter 1.63b : AC3 Filter is a DirectShow filter for AC3 decoding.

I hope that helps.

Leo
Thanks much Leo.

Why on earth can't Cineform include something that would work instead of my having to download something else and take a chance on it being something that may be bad for my system?

I am not saying that this particular file is bad, it is just that I want my new system to be clean and stay that way!

Cineform claims that Neo will convert my files and yet IT DOES NOT! At least not without having to take a chance on downloading an unknown file (codec) from an unknown site!

The fact that Cineform can't do it on its own says that it is not what it is advertised to be!

As for my original point, the good news is that my new system will convert the file in less than half the time than it used to. Also, since the original files now play in real time and since I do not use color correcting and all I really do not need Cineform for basic editing as such.

Still, if I need Cineform for the more advanced editing I expect it to be a complete product that does a complete job without my having to download questionable files from questionable sites!

Danny Fye
VidMus Video - Music Productions
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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:06 PM   #11
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John, Many will take a broader view of this. Today's "High-end" tools and techniques tend to become mainstream tomorrow. Even if a given tool doesn't prove useful to you today, it may tomorrow - either directly or indirectly. Companies like Cineform do a great job of keeping companies like Adobe honest. I'm sure there are times that Adobe thinks Cineform is a PITA but the attention they are forced to give to problems found outside their own "sacred halls" helps us all. Premiere is and will continue to be a better product because of the influence of Cineform even if you never use Cineform yourself.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Fye View Post
Still, if I need Cineform for the more advanced editing I expect it to be a complete product that does a complete job without my having to download questionable files from questionable sites!

Danny Fye
VidMus Video - Music Productions
Danny: Would you be willing to pay the licensing fee Cineform would likely have to pay to add that, when it is free on the internet ? Instead of your $ 99.00 or whatever you paid, would you want to have pay $ 200.00.

Fact is, most people have a program on board that already provides support. For the few who don't Cineform provided a link to get your system into compliance with the requirements of the program.


The idea that you will be able to avoid any internet contact with your system is not realistic in this age of on line updating.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:43 PM   #13
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Danny,

We point the the official site AC3Filter.net, Leo is pointing to another common location. We don't include this open source component, as the provider would never get back to us about bundling. The commercial equivalent is expensive, and as it is only need by 10% of our customers, this is the best solution without increase the cost of the product for everyone.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 03:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Newman View Post
Danny,

We point the the official site AC3Filter.net, Leo is pointing to another common location. We don't include this open source component, as the provider would never get back to us about bundling. The commercial equivalent is expensive, and as it is only need by 10% of our customers, this is the best solution without increase the cost of the product for everyone.
Maybe it is out in plain site where I can't see it because before I left my last reply I looked at your site and did not see any reference to a site for the AC3Filter.net.

So that is why I said what I said. Maybe you should make it a bit more obvious?

Anyway and whatever, good news is that everything is a whole lot faster and with a few exceptions (Vista (YUCK!)) better with my new system.


My new system is loosly based on the DIY7 from VideoGuys. Thanks much VideoGuys!!!

Note: Originally I said that I may just forget about using CineForm and NeoScene altogether. After a few helpful replies here and the fact that I already have it, I will go ahead and use it mainly for those projects that require more than basic editing.

Basic editing is for those projects that have to be videoed today and done yesterday and the time to convert the files is just plain not there...

Danny Fye
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Old September 4th, 2009, 03:35 PM   #15
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When you run the installer it should have said:
"We are unable to find a suitable AC3 decoder on your system. Would you like to download the AC3Filter from www.ac3filter.net now?" Yes or No.

If Yes, your browser is opened here:
'"http://ac3filter.net/projects/ac3filter"'

We can't rely that people will read the manual (they don't -- it is in there also,) so we put it in the installer where it is harder to miss.
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