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-   -   Connect HD questions. (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/41344-connect-hd-questions.html)

Daniel Moloko December 13th, 2003 10:13 AM

Connect hd, premiere pro and twixtor 24 frames
 
hi there,

A QUESTION:

can i just use the CONNECT HD with premiere pro as a capture engine and as aVI CODEC??

i dont care about the realtime thing, or even the aspect hd extra tools as the color correction, etc.

i would like to use the VEGAS but im pretending to use the TWIXTOR that its only avaliable for premiere.

so i got to render everything with the codec to get the 24fps.

dont know about there, but here in brazil is not that hard to get a film transfer for free (as we dont have a film
production as the americans have..."they" need us to a lot!)

thanks

ciao

ah, by the way, WHAT is the config on the twixtor that i need to set to get only the 24 frames convertion?

David Newman December 13th, 2003 11:54 AM

Connect HD will work with Premiere Pro. Under Premiere you can set up a Video for Windows (VfW) editing mode that is 1280x720 @ 29.97 and then editing using CineForm AVI clips. The VfW edit mode of Premiere is no match for the Aspect HD editing mode, but if real-time is truly not of importance, you will do fine with Connect HD.

Twixtor does seem to be the way to go for 24p exports under Premiere and After Effects.

Daniel Moloko December 13th, 2003 05:50 PM

so...
 
If youre saying that i can use it on premiere pro, it is used as a CODEC ? i can set the premiere to render my project with the connect hd codec?

and, can i capture directly from premiere to that codec?


thanks

ciao

David Newman December 13th, 2003 06:12 PM

Yes. Connect HD has an external tool that captures M2T data and converts it (automatically) to a system friendly HD AVI file. These AVIs contain the CFHD (CineForm HD) format data, which can be imported directly into Premiere, Vegas, After Effect etc.

Josef Crow December 13th, 2003 07:42 PM

Twixtor worked for me to go to 24p as an After effects plug-in. not premiere. Twixtor does something with premiere (i don't know what), but it didn't seem to be frame rate conversion.

And, as far as i know, Cineform doesn't export from After effects back to Cineform codec, yet. I exported the files as uncompressed AVI to get the best result.

David Newman December 14th, 2003 11:45 AM

The After Effects supporting codec is part of the release version of Connect HD and the Aspect HD upgrade -- both coming soon.

John Gaspain December 20th, 2004 11:29 PM

Im having a problem with conversion...Connect HD, [added screen grab]
 
Im having two problems.

#1 where there is a vertical blue or negative line on the right side edge of the captured clip, its only on the converted by ConnectHD file. I guess its about 40 pixels wide and looks blueish.

#2...its also rendering all my 16:9 footage as 4:3 for some reason. I did setup Vegas properly in accordance with the ConnectHD manual. {1440x1080 / upper / 1.3333 & simulate aspect ratio}

( The .m2t file loads into vegas just fine- in 16:9, but if I load the .avi Connect file- it loads as 4:3!

Its not on the camera...and only happens upon conversion with ConnectHD

edited to add a screen capture of the .avi in Vegas.
http://aequantum.com/vegasclip.jpg

im running:
XP PRO w.SP2
DX9.0c
Vegas 5.0b
HD link 1.3 (trial)
HDR-FX1

Why is this happening? Is it because its a trial?

Thanks!

Thad Huston December 21st, 2004 03:49 PM

#1 sounds like a bug we had in one build of Aspect, but I never heard of it in Connect. Download the new Connect 1.5 and see if you still see that problem there.

#2 you need to look at the very last paragraph in the section of the connect manual about configuring. Once your project is configured, you still have work to do on your clips so they are imported correctly. This is a limitaion of Vegas, but I think they will fix it in Vegas 6. Here's the exerpt from the manual just for other readers who may not have it...

"Finally, when you import your clips into your Media Pool, they may still look like they are 4:3 rather than 16:9. Right click on one of the clips in the Media Pool, and select ‘Properties’. Change the ‘Field Order’ and ‘Pixel Aspect Ratio’ to match the clip you have imported, and then click the ‘Save’ button which is next to the ‘Stream’ field. From that point on, your clips should import correctly, and your project should play those clips correctly as well. The rest of the features you’ll use should work identically to the way you are used to editing DV in Vegas. Consult your Sony Vegas users guide for more information on Vegas editing features."

Thad H.
CineForm Support

John Gaspain December 21st, 2004 06:25 PM

excellent! Thank you Thad. That worked! ...but I still get the blue stripe intermittently, it depends on the clip I convert. I'll have to research some more about the cause.

Thanks!

Carlos Rodriguez March 17th, 2005 10:50 PM

Connect HD questions.
 
Hello, this is for you cineform people :-)

First of all, I'd like to pick your brains on a few compositing questions.

1. The connect HD software for AVI applications ($199) How does that work? Would I be able to import the captured clips into premiere or after effects? I'm running after effects 6.0 professional, shooting with the HD10, and I'd like to do some compositing within after effects, green screen chroma key, etc.

2. The cineform website says it is for avi applications. Would it work well within premiere pro? I have 1.0 with the mainconcept mpeg pro codec, which supports hdv 1 and 2. I hear it is very sluggish, but how would it handle?

I'm more concerned with the compositing part right now.

Also, if I can import the hdv footage into after effects, would I be able to export it back as a clip in hdv resolution?

My questions are probably old and probably have come across your screens before, but I'm still trying to get my computer set up to do this stuff. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you again and sorry for the bother.

Carlos Rodriguez III

David Newman March 18th, 2005 09:37 AM

Hi Carlos,

I'm the local CineForm guy so I try answering your questions.

1. Connect HD converts incoming camera MPEG2TS streams to a more managable AVI file using CineForm's wavelet compression. This AVI will work in After Effects, Virtual Dub, Vegas, Premiere, anything that uses standard VfW codecs.

2. Connect HD does work with Premiere Pro 1.0, although is it not optimized for that purpose. For that there is Aspect HD ($499) and the 1.5.1 Premiere upgrade that CineForm developed with Adobe (free to 1.5 users.)

For compositing you will need either Connect or Aspect HD, as the free Premiere plug-in doesn't come with components to support After Effects. You can use Connect with 1.5.1 for a low cost solution. Aspect offers greater performance in Premiere, but doesn't accelerate AE.

Carlos Rodriguez March 18th, 2005 01:36 PM

Thanks!
 
That's what I really like about this forum! A fast knowledgeable answer. Thanks for the input.

So just to get this straight, premiere pro 1.5.1 will import the footage into after effects 6.0, but it would still be best to use Connect HD, right?

Thanks again David!

Carlos Rodriguez III

David Newman March 18th, 2005 01:51 PM

Not quite. Premiere 1.5.1 fully supports CineForm HD within Premiere, but not for outside applications like After Effects. Connect HD provides a license to use the CineForm HD format in any PC application (CHD also includes the HDV capture and conversion tool -- HDLink.)

Best is Aspect HD with Premiere 1.5.1 and After Effects.
Next is Premiere 1.5.1 and Connect HD for After Effects work.

You don't have to use Premiere 1.5.1 but it makes things much easier (particularly for Sony HDV which has a pixel aspect ratio not fully supported pre-1.5.1.) You can use Connect HD with Premiere Pro 1.0, but the performance is limited.

I hope this helps clarify. The trail versions for all CineForm software is available from the website.

-David

Carlos Rodriguez March 18th, 2005 05:27 PM

great, thanks! much appreciated!

Jeremy Rochefort May 30th, 2005 12:07 PM

Where to go with Connect HD?
 
I have been following your posts regarding Connect HD and Vegas hopefully closely enough to allow me to ask the following question.

I am really considering purchasing Connect HD for the abilities as mentioned in your post:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=45329

I have a burning question I need answered. Connect HD creates a "intermediate" avi file to be used for editing. How does one swop out to the original HD for rendering to have quality carried through to the final product - or am I missing the boat here entirely with my philosophy.

At present, I have been using PIC video's mjpeg codec for intermediate work and then using Gearshift to swop out the intermediate with the original m2t in Vegas 6. I would much prefer using a less lossy codec. What is the quality of the intermediate like for output work - hell, in short here, I'm in a quandry and a bit confused as to what my workflow should be since everyone has so many different ideas. Your objective opinion would be appreciated.

I have downloaded the beta Connect HD 1.7 and find it to my needs, especially the scene detection from my FX1E.

ASs you probably have gathered, I am relatively new to HD and the video editing world so any constructive help here would be appreciated.

Regards

Jeremy

David Newman May 30th, 2005 01:26 PM

Jeremy,

Good questions. The confusion is over CineForm's use of the term "intermediate" which we derived from the film workflow "Digtial Intermediate" not from the concept of temporary "proxy." In film digital intermediates you don't go back to the source negative. The CineForm Intermediate is not a proxy for the M2T data, it completely replaces it. We are like an uncompressed workflow -- only much more convenient due to file size and speed. We adopted the branding of "CineForm Intermediate" during the post production of "Dust to Glory" where CineForm compression was used through out and was the final master format. So that is the philosophy. From these AVIs you create your master, to go to whatever output format you want : WMV9, AVC264, MPEG2, DVD, D5 or film.

Jeremy Rochefort May 30th, 2005 01:40 PM

And now the bell rings!
 
Finally - a concise and honest answer! - thanks David

First, thanks for the quick reply - from what I can gather from the forums - a Cineform standard!

You have just gained another customer!

I will be doing some tests to satisfy my own curiosity but from a workflow point of view, you have certainly enlightened and satisfied me.

Many thanks

Jeremy

Mark Woollard June 1st, 2005 02:10 PM

My initial experience with HDConnect 1.7 has been very good. I capture m2t wtih automatic conversion to CF Intermediate. That saves hard drive space and gives me very good quality for editing. So far I've output the final edit to two different formats, wmvHD for playback on a computer, and back to m2t (HDV) for printing to tape. I played the latter through a Christie LX 45 projector and was very pleased with the result.

When I first started using HD Connect, I thought the time delay awaiting completion of auto conversion would be a workflow problem. The delay is equal to about 50% of the total length of the clip. I've adjusted my documentary production workflow to capture shorter clips (e.g. not usually longer than 5 or 6 minutes, and often only 1-2 minutes) and while the auto conversion is happening, I review the next portion of tape and cue it to avoid capturing the interviewer's questions and fluffed answers. I find I waste very little time this way. This probably wouldn't work so well for long-form event productions but I don't do much of that anyway.

Hopefully Vegas will soon have this function built in.

Steve Crisdale June 1st, 2005 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Woollard
Hopefully Vegas will soon have this function built in.

That would be nice... and it's something that many HDV newbies are mistakenly beguiled into believing exists. I don't think it's likely to happen unless the HDLink tool can be made to work somewhat like a 'plug-in' for Vegas, so the captures are made directly to the Media Pool/Timeline.

Any possibility of that?

As things stand at this point in time, anyone who has a HDV camera and a PC who isn't using a Cineform product, is not getting as good a final product as they could...

David Newman June 1st, 2005 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale
As things stand at this point in time, anyone who has a HDV camera and a PC who isn't using a Cineform product, is not getting as good a final product as they could...

Can we quote you. :)

David Newman June 1st, 2005 11:45 PM

Regarding the HDLink direct integration into Vegas, this would be nice. The Sony Vegas engineering team (hopefully) will be adding more of these features over time. Unfortunately I'm not aware on any plug-in API that would allow CineForm to do this itself.

Steve Crisdale June 2nd, 2005 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman
Can we quote you. :)

Sure!!

I know there've been those who've questioned the need for Cineform products in dealing with HDV; but from my experience with editing HDV from my HD10u and FX-1e, ConnectHD has been an integral component of creating video - both SD and HD - that has truly lived up to the expectation and promise that HD carried with it when I decided to jump on the HD technology train...

Thanks for your efforts David, and your involvement with the HD community.

Mark Woollard July 21st, 2005 11:10 AM

Does HD Connect license permit 2 installs?
 
I'm a one-man operation using Vegas to edit--primarily on my desktop. I'd like to start using my laptop for some smaller projects. Vegas lets me have two installs. Does CineForm?

David Newman July 21st, 2005 04:07 PM

Yes and No. One purchase is only for one license. However we do recognize that the laptop to desktop work-flow can require a second install. Contact technical support to request a laptop activation.

Mike Teutsch July 21st, 2005 04:12 PM

Aspect The Same?
 
David,

I've got Aspect HD on my main, can I get it for my laptop too? I got the laptop later and now use it more than the desktop.

Also, when I bought it, I asked for the disk to be sent when available, hard copy, but never did get it, is it ready yet?

Thanks david,

Mike

David Newman July 21st, 2005 04:20 PM

Some policy applies to Aspect HD.

If have forwarded you inquiry to sales regarding a physical copy to see what happened.

Mike Teutsch July 21st, 2005 04:25 PM

Thank you very much David. I can't express how much it means to have you as a major contributor to this forum. I wish there were more reps like you.

Mike

Serge Victorovich October 6th, 2005 04:31 AM

Connect HD and Epix Capture Board
 
I'm very interested in the possibility to use Cineform codec for real time
capture and compression in combination with inexpensive card.
I know about expensive combination Prospect HD and AJA Xena card.
But i can live with 4:2:2 8bit use Connect HD or Aspect HD
for capturing 720p from cmos camera head and capture board
like this:http://www.epixinc.com/products/sv9m001.htm
Anybody tested Connect HD with differents capture boards?
Thank you in advance for any info,
Serge.

David Newman October 6th, 2005 09:46 AM

Connect HD is not currently setup for this as the camera source image is bayer formatted, not RGB 4:4:4 or YUV 4:2:2 which is expected by the CineForm codec. You will also need to gamma correct the linear data coming off the camera head. So there will be a lot of pre-processing required to compress of the fly -- so much pre-processing that you will spend for more on your PC than will will on any other gear to maintain real-time capture from a bayer sounce into Connect HD.

HOWEVER, we have been developing a new compression technology to directly compress bayer source without all the processing overhead. Unfortunately this market for frame grabbers is smaller than that of HDV, so a bayer compression tool can't be priced as inexpensively as Connect HD. This is currently undergoing a licensing discussion, so today I can't annouce details.

Serge Victorovich October 7th, 2005 06:35 AM

Quote:

as the camera source image is bayer formatted, not RGB 4:4:4 or YUV 4:2:2
David, but if this cmos camera head inside have a dsp and can output filtered signal YUV 4:2:2 through GigE or 1394b, in this case is possible encode to PHD? Or only solution is camera with SMPTE 292M HDSDI output and Xena HS as capture card? And last question:Prospect HD able to resolve non-standart resolution 1280x1440p24 (combined two streams 1280x720 by over-under stereo3d)?

David Newman October 7th, 2005 09:26 AM

Prospect HD would be able to encode (in real-time) YUV 4:2:2 (10-bit) data coming from any source even 3D resolutions like 1280x1440p24. We can encode 1920x1080p30 on a dual Opteron 252, which is 62M pixels per second. 1280x1440x24 is only 44Mp/s so it will work well. The Premiere capture tools are of course only setup for HDSDI or HDV inputs, but the DirectShow encoding components are available to do much more if you create your own tools.

Daniel Rudd October 17th, 2005 08:58 PM

I agree
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch
Thank you very much David. I can't express how much it means to have you as a major contributor to this forum. I wish there were more reps like you.

Mike

I agree David. Your input on this forum was a major consideration in my purchase of Aspect HD --- Although I hope to know more than you in a week or so... :)

Mark Woollard November 4th, 2005 08:23 AM

Does HD Connect use video card processing power?
 
I am considering getting an nVidia 7800 to speed up Magic Bullet effects rendering in Vegas 6. Would that new video card (versus my nVidia 5700) have any postive impact on HD Connect performance?

David Newman November 4th, 2005 10:18 AM

Compression and conversion is not impacted by the performance of the graphics card. None of CineForm products rely on the GPU to achieve its performance.

Mark Woollard November 4th, 2005 12:06 PM

Is it technically possible for HD Connect to tap the GPU and could it significantly improve performance?

David Newman November 4th, 2005 02:07 PM

It would likely slow things download. Bouncing data two and from a GPU is overhead we don't need. CineForm products are heavily optimized to not need GPU acceleration.

Glenn Thomas November 7th, 2005 04:40 PM

Quick Cineform Connect trial version question.
 
Hello David. I downloaded the ConnectHD 15 day trial version yesterday, installed it, and got it running. Before using the software to capture any footage I thought I'd try converting an m2t clip I'd downloaded a while back. The clip is only about 100mb in size, and I had 3gb left on the drive I was using. I tried the conversion a number of times, but it just didn't work. I'd get a message after just a few seconds telling me the conversion was complete, but there'd be no completed file. Is this feature disabled in the 15 day trial version? My camera wasn't connected at the time aswell, if maybe that stops it from working?

Also, in the manual it's mentioned that a minimum 2.8ghz P4 with HT is required for decent performance. Now I'm running a 3.06ghz Dell notebook with HT, but I've disabled the Hyper Threading because when turned on, it lowers the overall performance of the computer dramatically. So much so that DV avi files can't even be played full screen at their full frame rate. So I'm just wondering if HT is really a necessity? I'd rather leave it turned off.

David Newman November 7th, 2005 07:04 PM

There is no reason I can think of that should prevent your trail version from working, it is a full version with no restictions. The only unknown is that M2T file. Try downloading one of these m2t clips (as I know they are good) -- http://www.hdvinfo.net/articles/jvcp...ini35test5.php

As for Hyper Threading, it isn't required but it will improve performance for threaded applications like Connect HD which is multiple CPU aware. Older non-threaded tools can't directly benefit from HT.

Glenn Thomas November 7th, 2005 08:52 PM

Many thanks for the quick reply. Yes, I might try a different file. I have those ones from the JVC, but they're on another computer.

As for the Hyper Threading, if that is supported I may end up giving it a try. It's easy enough to turn on or off in the Bios.

Anyway, I thought it was about time I tried capturing some footage from my HC1. After reading the system requirements for ConnectHD, I realised the Windows SP2 update was required. So I downloaded that and installed it. Now the computer won't even recognise the camera or any other Firewire device! Of course SP2 adds a firewall to all network devices, so I disabled that for the 2x Firewire connections. Unfortunately I still can't get it to work. Hopefully I'll get it sorted out. There's a Microsoft fix file I've just downloaded. Maybe that will work.

David Newman November 7th, 2005 11:21 PM

Try uninstalling the Firewire driver, then search for new hardware devices. When it finds the FW the camera should be visible also.


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