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Old April 24th, 2005, 02:25 PM   #1
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Loss of video quality with the FX1?

When I view the Aspect HD AVI file captured from the camera the video image is great. As soon as I place it in Premier it "blurs". I am using Cineform Aspect HD 1440x1080 project setting, exporting movie as

Cinema Craft MPEG, mode dvd 2 pass cbr, elementary stream, cbr 7.0, quality setting natural picture.

Video compressor MPEG-2 MP@ML, millions of colors, frame size of 720x480, frame rate 29.97, Aspect ratio D1/DV NTSC Widescreen 16:9 (1.2).

Lower Field First

I have a couple of images, which I can not figure out how to put on my site, if anyone would like to see a before and after. Figured it out.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmmnt/20...008-Comp-1.jpg

http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmmnt/20...008-Comp-2.jpg

Any help is appreciated

Jim
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Old April 24th, 2005, 05:29 PM   #2
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It looks like as soon as you set MPEG compressor to 720 x 480, you're reducing to SD.
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Old April 24th, 2005, 05:43 PM   #3
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Dave

When I try to use 1440x1080 as the frame size CinemaCraft gives me "The selected value is out of range. The selected value must be between 64 and 720." message.
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Old April 24th, 2005, 06:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Montgomery
Dave

When I try to use 1440x1080 as the frame size CinemaCraft gives me "The selected value is out of range. The selected value must be between 64 and 720." message.
Who the hell is Cinema Craft, and why would you be wanting to specifically export to their codec?

Cineform HD isn't an MPEG2 codec but an *.avi based 'intermediate' style codec.

If you wish to render to an MPEG2 with HD resolution, you'll very likely need to get a hold of the MainConcept MPEG encoder. The MainConcept MPEG encoder is (from memory) the necessary encoder for both Premiere Pro and Vegas. I also recall that if you don't have it, you'll have some problems exporting/rendering out any HD level MPEG2s.
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Old April 25th, 2005, 08:39 AM   #5
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OK here is where I am at.

Unsatisfactory results

MainConcept MPEG Pro Project Settings NTSC DVD Widescreen, looks good in monitor window but crashes before render can be complete.

CineformAspectHD 1440x1080 30i Project Settings, looks acceptable in monitor window, Export Cinema Craft MPEG, must change frame size to 720x480 looks terrible in Media Player.

CineformAspectHD 1440x1080 30i Project Settings, looks acceptable in monitor window, Export CineformHD Export at 1440x1080 frame size looks good in media player, can not import into Adobe Encore.

It appears that when I have to change frame size to 720x480 to work in Adobe Encore things get bad, really bad.

I have looked at the Canopus ProCoder but do not know what to export the Premier Project to (CineformHD at 1440x1080?) and what the output and quality would be to import into Encore.

Maybe Encore is the problem........ Any suggestions?

Jim
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Old April 25th, 2005, 10:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Montgomery
OK here is where I am at.

Unsatisfactory results

MainConcept MPEG Pro Project Settings NTSC DVD Widescreen, looks good in monitor window but crashes before render can be complete.

CineformAspectHD 1440x1080 30i Project Settings, looks acceptable in monitor window, Export Cinema Craft MPEG, must change frame size to 720x480 looks terrible in Media Player.

CineformAspectHD 1440x1080 30i Project Settings, looks acceptable in monitor window, Export CineformHD Export at 1440x1080 frame size looks good in media player, can not import into Adobe Encore.

It appears that when I have to change frame size to 720x480 to work in Adobe Encore things get bad, really bad.

I have looked at the Canopus ProCoder but do not know what to export the Premier Project to (CineformHD at 1440x1080?) and what the output and quality would be to import into Encore.

Maybe Encore is the problem........ Any suggestions?

Jim
I don't understand why Encore cannot load an AVI, because that's exactly what the CFHD format is.... What's the exact error message that Encore gives when you try to load a CFHD *.avi file?

Have you rendered out a 1920x1080 MPEG2 using the MainConcept MPEG encoder?

I have no trouble loading m2t (with file type extension changed to mpg), or Cineforms' CFHD *.avi, into DVD Architect. Unless something was seriously wrong, I'd expect to be able to do the same in Encore. Without some more specifics, it makes analysing your particular problem rather difficult.

BTW, you may need to flag the 1.333 nature of the CFHD pixel aspect ratio in the *.avi for the proper WS aspect to be maintained onto DVD. The native m2t clips will load at correct 16:9 ratio.
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Old April 25th, 2005, 10:47 AM   #7
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[QUOTE=Steve Crisdale]I don't understand why Encore cannot load an AVI, because that's exactly what the CFHD format is.... What's the exact error message that Encore gives when you try to load a CFHD *.avi file?[QUOTE=Steve Crisdale]

The CFHD *.avi file has to be at 720x480 not 1440X1080 to work in Encore.

[QUOTE=Steve Crisdale]Have you rendered out a 1920x1080 MPEG2 using the MainConcept MPEG encoder?[QUOTE=Steve Crisdale]

Yes I have, but still get the blur effect.

[QUOTE=Steve Crisdale]I have no trouble loading m2t (with file type extension changed to mpg), or Cineforms' CFHD *.avi, into DVD Architect.[QUOTE=Steve Crisdale]

What frame size are you using and what does the final output look like compared to the orginial .avi converted from the camera?


Jim
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Old April 25th, 2005, 12:06 PM   #8
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So I am resigned to

1440x1080i plays great on a computer

For DVD authoring the frame size has to be 720x480 so I might as well capture DV from the FX1 and accept a slight increase in quality over a regular DV camera.

The question remains if I want to be able to play the video on a HiDef plasma TV should I send the finished Premier project back to the FX1 as HDV and then plug the camera into the plasma screen? Kind of defeats DVD authoring.

Feeling like a squashed fly on the wall with an expensive camera!

Jim
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Old April 25th, 2005, 02:55 PM   #9
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Jim,

You cannot make a high definition DVD yet. They're still arguing about the standards. You're right, You have to play it with the camera. Do what I did. Build a home theater PC, and add an HD tuner card. You can then record off the air too!

Not to worry though! HD DVDs are on the way. There just not here yet!
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Old April 25th, 2005, 03:30 PM   #10
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Tom Wheeler on the VTNT (NewTek VT) forum reports using Vegas/DVDA with his FX1 and playing back near-camera-quality video from a DVD player. Here's a copy of one of his recent posts.

"I am playing back right now wmv9 and Divx HD projects prepared in 1080i HD in Vegas 5 and burned to a DVD+R using DVD Architect 2.0 on my
Avellink2 DVD-player ($249). While it is not uncompressed HD (and neither is any other source of HD available to me), it is clearly to my eyes and to others who have seen it displayed by my Runco 980 Ultra projector on my 76 in. X 43 in. Stewart Studiomatte screen clearly and easily superior to any standard definition format . In fact, everyone who has seen it uses the term "stunning" to describe the image. I have also compared the wmv9 to the original HDV footage via the component output of my Sony HDR-FX1 and it is very difficult to distinguish between them. It is a myth to believe there is no way to edit and view HDV projects right now.

Tom"

So while it's not yet native HDV, it's a step closer.
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Old April 25th, 2005, 05:16 PM   #11
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I strongly agree. The price of the Linkplayer is very low in comparison to what it does for me. Playing HDV on the HDTV is a wonderful experience.
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Old April 25th, 2005, 08:38 PM   #12
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Thanks guys, not what I wanted to hear but if that is the best we can do....

Maybe I will run over to Sony and download Vegas 6 + DVD.

Jim
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Old April 25th, 2005, 09:07 PM   #13
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Jim,

I just said it looked great as HDV. It looks like any other DVD when I export to MPEG2-DVD. Doesn't yours? And if not, what are your settings for MPEG2?

Editing in HDV gives you an option to show it large and beautiful on a PC, or as a regular SD image on a DVD, If you edit in DV you are limited to DV.
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Old April 25th, 2005, 10:19 PM   #14
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Steve
Using Cinemacraft Basic

Mode MPEG-2, 2 pass VBR and elementary stream
Bitrate Min 0 Avg 5 Max 9
Quality set Natural Picture
Aspect Ratio 16:9

MPEG Video Setting
Add sequence mode
Offset line = 1
Intra DC precision = 10
Block scan order alternate

Jim
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Old April 25th, 2005, 10:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Montgomery
So I am resigned to

1440x1080i plays great on a computer

For DVD authoring the frame size has to be 720x480 so I might as well capture DV from the FX1 and accept a slight increase in quality over a regular DV camera.

The question remains if I want to be able to play the video on a HiDef plasma TV should I send the finished Premier project back to the FX1 as HDV and then plug the camera into the plasma screen? Kind of defeats DVD authoring.

Feeling like a squashed fly on the wall with an expensive camera!

Jim

OK. So what you were really asking was how can you create a DVD disk with HD resolution video files on it, that'll play back in a consumer level DVD player.

Answer... you can't. You must allow the authoring app (Encore, DVD-Architect...etc) to recompress the video to DVD resolution and *.vob format. If you use the HD MPEG2 or CFHD *.avi to do the encode to DVD *.vob from, it will be superior in PQ to using an SD source file.

To view the edited HDV on your Plasma, you'll indeed have to record back to the camera. Check the threads on how to use Cineform's HD-Link to do so.

And; as has been mentioned heaps of times before - if you don't want to do that... get an Avel LinkPlayer. Set up a hardwired network, or write WMV9 HD files as data to a DVD disk and play in the LinkPlayer's DVD drive.

But if you want to share this stuff with the HD equipment challenged, you will just have to allow the DVD authoring app you use to re-encode to DVD resolution *.vob

Is the HD/HDV trap becoming much clearer now?!!
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