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Old June 21st, 2005, 05:16 PM   #1
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newbie question

Hi,
I'm a newbie as far as HD editing is concerned, so sorry for any stupid questions.
I've just ordered my Sony FX1E and i'm seriously thinking about purchasing Aspect HD. However I have a few questions regarding some of its features. I read on Cineform website that aspect hd gives the ability to export a finished timeline back to the camcorder. What exactly does it mean? Will I be able to export Cineform Avi's back to camcorder? (As i understand I'll be using Cineform AVis while editing in Premiere Pro) On the very same website I also found this information - "Export of already-rendered MPEG2-TS sequences to the camcorder using the Premiere Pro export interface. (Adobe HDV forces a render of the timeline before each export to the camcorder)" So what's the format of the files I'll be exporting? How does it work?

Thanks

Kuba
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Old June 21st, 2005, 05:34 PM   #2
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You can only* upload HDV (15-GOP MPEG-2 TS) back to the tape.

Using AspectHD, you capture the footage, convert it to a Cineform compressed avi, edit the Cineform files in Premiere Pro, render the edited footage to a 15-GOP MPEG-2 TS file, which you can then copy back to the tape.

In other words, you have to re-compress the Cineform files to MPEG-2 and introduce another generational loss of the image. On the plus side - you can now actually play back your edited HDV off the camera... since there's a shortage of HDV playback devices out there.

-Steve

*You could also render to DV and export the Standard Definition DV footage back to the tape - but it wouldn't be HD anymore.
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Old June 21st, 2005, 05:49 PM   #3
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Thanks Steve

Using AspectHD, you capture the footage, convert it to a Cineform compressed avi
Just one more question with regard to that. Is this a one step process? (I'm using Premiere Pro with the HD update)

Thanks
Kuba
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Old June 21st, 2005, 06:00 PM   #4
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It can be a one-step process - depending on what software you use. For example:

Premiere Pro 1.5.1 will capture and convert to Cineform avi as one step, with no other options.

With AspectHD and HDLink you can:
- capture to MPEG-2 TS
- capture to MPEG-2 TS, convert to Cineform avi, and keep both
- capture to MPEG-2 TS, convert to Cineform avi, and keep only Cineform
All as one step. In addition, the HDLink utility can convert already captured MPEG-2 TS's on your hard drive, as well having a variety of quality options pull-down settings, etc.

In general, the support for HDV via AspectHD is vastly superior to just Premiere Pro and the 1.5.1 update. I couldn't resist the upgrade after I tried their demo.

-Steve
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Old June 21st, 2005, 06:22 PM   #5
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Thanks

Whats the difference between MPEG-2 TS and Cineform avi as far as disk space is concerned? Is MPEG-2 TS editable in Premiere? I still cant see the advantage of Aspect Hd with respect to exporting a finished timeline back to camcorder. Since I'm editing Cineform Avis they would still have to be rendered to MPEG-2 TS file before recording to tape. Am I missing out on something?

Kuba
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Old June 21st, 2005, 06:47 PM   #6
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Kuba,

There are many advantages to the Aspect HD, the first of which is Premiere doesn't edit M2T files. Even if Premiere did what is known as "native MPEG editing" there is very little advantage in doing that. The idea that quality results in staying in the native format is false for several reasons :
1) first you must assume HDV is your deliverable, which it will not be. Professional applications will expect D5 and HDCAM. For direct to consumer the deliverable is VHS, DVD and soon an HD DVD format -- none of which can use an MPEG transport stream.
2) you also assume you aren't changing the data, i.e. very little editing -- no titles, no color correction, limited cut and dissolves. This is the only way you limit re-rendering MPEG (note: a cut in MPEG requires a render -- this is not like DV.) So for a very simple cuts only editing then back to HDV tape -- native makes some sense -- for the real world of HD production editing MPEG is just a big pain.
Here are some of the advantages to Aspect HD:
* It is signicantly faster (multiple streams in real-time)
* It files are compatible with everything that can read an AVI (99% of PC apps.)
* Quality is much higher for multi-generation work -- enabling production to use tools like After Effects.
* Your deliverable(s) can be easily created with a higher quality from the CineForm AVI, much easier than from an M2T file (which very few tools support.)
* Your work is in broadcast 4:2:2 rather than HDV 4:2:0

There is a bunch of stuff. :)
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Old June 21st, 2005, 07:02 PM   #7
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Whats the difference between MPEG-2 TS and Cineform avi as far as disk space is concerned

Cineform *.avi's are about 3 to 4x as large.

advantage of Aspect Hd with respect to exporting a finished timeline back to camcorder

The "advantage of AspectHD" is that you will have a finished timeline to export. If your system is suitably high end, you may be able to edit native MPEG-2 TS, but such systems are pretty expensive, and the codec is rediculously unfriendly to work with. The whole priciple of the Cineform workflow is that it's a workable editing codec.

Since I'm editing Cineform Avis they would still have to be rendered to MPEG-2 TS file before recording to tape

Yes.

EDIT: By the way - if you're unsure about AspectHD vs. Premiere Pro 1.5.1, download the demo and try it out - nothing makes the advantages clear like playing with it.

-Steve
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 05:02 AM   #8
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Thank you both

I'll buy Aspect Hd very soon, no doubt about that. I have just one more perhaps silly question (I guess as a newbie I'm allowed to ask silly questions:) ).
Steve you wrote that with Aspect Hd I will be able to capture to MPEG-2 TS, convert to Cineform avi, and keep both. Whats the purpose of keeping files in both formats if Cineform avi's are the files to use in Premiere or After Effects ?

Thanks again

Kuba
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 09:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Whats the purpose of keeping files in both formats if Cineform avi's are the files to use in Premiere or After Effects
Excellent question.

The only practical reason I can think of to keep the MPEG-2 TS is so that you can use the Cineform files as proxies and render your final composition/timeline directly from the original source - avoiding any losses in the Cineform codec.

After a bit of playing with the workflow, I have abandoned this notion and acquire directly to Cineform. The quality is high enough, I save disk space (by not storing both), and I find any workflow that involves the MPEG-2 is more trouble than its worth.

-Steve
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 09:48 AM   #10
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Thanks Steve
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