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Old November 12th, 2009, 03:54 PM   #31
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To be fair to Cineform they rely on the Adobe product for their own product.
If Adobe keep changing and cant get things right... they dont really stand a chance on their deadline do they???

I upgraded too when the latest version came out... I do know when it is finally released I will be a very happy bunny!!
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Old November 12th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #32
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I agree with you Gary. I have been one of the most ardent supporters of Cineform, to the extent of wishing they would just engineer their own NLE for precisely the reasons you cite.

The rub came when one of Cineform's self-imposed deadlines for resolving the CS4 mess was sacrificed in favor of some 3D development.

You can't blame that on Adobe... and it's not easy finding SOMETHING they aren't responsible for.
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Old November 12th, 2009, 06:12 PM   #33
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Cineform did state on the Cineform website blog that the dates could change for these targeted releases.

HDLINK does allow you to capture from a HDV device via Firewire, but it is crash record only. So no timecode is retained if capturing from a HDV Tape which has timecode.

As the Real-time engine is not ready, I can't capture into Premeire pro yet, which will write the timecode into the Cineform captured clips/files.

It would be good if the HDLINK software did allow you to capture the timecode into the clip and allow time-code based batch-capture via HDV firewire, as well as SDI etc.

Apart from the capture issue from HDV tapes, and the slow export of Cineform AVI's under cs4 x3 slower, it's not to bad it gets the job done just takes a lot longer.

Just a bit of an inconvience having to capture onto CS3 on another machine with Cineform.

It it was stand alone capture like I mentioned I think that would be very good, who else thinks this? I am not sure if this feature could be added based onto HDLINK easily or not but I think it would be very useful.
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Old November 12th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
I agree with you Gary. I have been one of the most ardent supporters of Cineform, to the extent of wishing they would just engineer their own NLE for precisely the reasons you cite.

The rub came when one of Cineform's self-imposed deadlines for resolving the CS4 mess was sacrificed in favor of some 3D development.

You can't blame that on Adobe... and it's not easy finding SOMETHING they aren't responsible for.
Unfortunately that status update was not entirely accurate, we had one engineer temporarily finish a 3D feature that was also many months delayed (he was the only one who could do it.) The work was under 2 weeks, resulting in a finished product line (PC Neo/Prospect 3D was release way after the Mac version, yet the code base is nearly the same,) clearing the path for that engineer to focus only Adobe CS4 work which was more than a two week effort to finish (i.e. it was a good thing to get it done, increase revenue, plus no more distractions from CS4.) So we haven't been diverting Adobe work into 3D work in general, we want them all to work together, after all Prospect 3D needs CS4 just as much, if not more so. Basically we have a lots of delayed projects, some is due to Adobe API difficulties, some is simply the economic conditions, mostly as we are understaffed. We are working a lot on cool stuff that will benefit everyone, CS3, CS4 and CS5 users included. Just working our way out of a tough year.
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Old November 12th, 2009, 11:52 PM   #35
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David,

You guys have certainly had a tedious juggling act to perform, and I can honestly say that I have never experienced a Cineform technical failure. When you think about it, the most common technical support issue you guys deal with is probably activation issues. That's impressive.

When that scenario is juxtaposed with Adobe (pick your version), it was no surprise that the landscape unexpectedly shifted underneath your team.... I have empathy for that situation. In fact, that is the circumstance that keeps me asking "why does Cineform put up with this?"... and start ranting about you guys developing your own NLE, but you have suitably dealt with me on that issue for now (but I still think it's a good idea though).

In a lot of ways, you at Cineform are victims of your own high standard of customer interaction and support... it is astonishing. So when things got changed up on the announced RTE for CS4, it was a stunner.

Add to that is the lingering mystery of what is really going to be resolved in the CS4 fix..... will I be able to trim my projects for example.

You have had to deal with a hostile environment in the development of your products. For many of us whom have come to rely on the workflows that Cineform has allowed, it's as though our tools are being tampered with. We have to place a certain amount of trust on the mystical upgrade paths..... Cineform upgrades, Adobe upgrades, Windows upgrades, hardware upgrades.... and it all has to lean together like a house of cards, and earn us a living. In many instances, upgrades are not a choice. Compatibility rears its ugly head, and when it disrupts, we are left waiting for that next upgrade that will fix everything. There's no place to hide or pause, because eventually, you have to get moving again.

I doubt anyone understands that better than you guys nowadays.

Hey, not sure anyone has run this idea by you, but have you thought about developing your own NLE?

Thanks David. Your presence (and the others on your team) here over the years is sincerely appreciated.
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Old November 13th, 2009, 05:06 PM   #36
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It has been suggested many times before that Cineform write its own NLE. Last time this came up, I responded jokingly, that Prospect is actually the NLE and Premiere Pro is really the plug-in.

But seriously, why should Cineform waste its precious resources on duplicating the immense amount of work that has gone into pieces of software like FCP, Vegas and PP? And then you have to contend with all the 3rd party plug-ins, hardware drivers and codecs that would be developed or modified to work with a totally new NLE. Even if Cineform were to tackle building its own NLE, I doubt that they would do it from scratch. The logical approach would be to buy some "lesser known" NLE that is out on the landscape and then modify it. Heh heh, if only VirtualDub was for sale. The only good thing that I can see in the "Cineform NLE" idea is that once all NLEs go full 64 bit, there is some small advantage of rewriting a piece of software from scratch, rather than cobbling something from the 32 bit version.

As to the RT CS4 engine, I can wait. I'd rather it more or less work right when released, than have something released that gives the appearance of working and then bungs up everything that I need to do (like version 4.0 of PP CS4 did).
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Old November 14th, 2009, 09:41 PM   #37
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Refund?

Is it possible for me to get a refund for my upgrade to PH4? I feel I was misled in thinking that it would fully work with my CS4 over 10 months ago, like my Aspect did with CS3.

I dont use CS4 any more and I don't feel like waiting any longer for compatibility.

Thank you,

Stephen
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Old November 15th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #38
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Cineform Long

I am getting ready to get some sleep.
Finished a project that is due and used First light on several cuts.
As a long time Red Giant user and therefore an after effects render and wait user, first light captured the look i needed on my final piece that I cobbled together.

Good luck to those who cannot wait but after this weekend I will be with Cineform as they are what everyone out here says about them: Innovative, the best at customer service, the best small company in the business.

Cineform please give these guys their money back and lets have a forum for users and not this group of posters who spend more time on boards than they do in their suites
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Old November 15th, 2009, 09:56 PM   #39
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Dan, It's good that your workflow does what you need. The thing is... y'know .... not all of us use that same workflow.

Oh and by the way, have you tried trimming your "long" project in Project Manager yet? Didn't think so ...
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Old November 15th, 2009, 10:35 PM   #40
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I for one will stand up for David and Cineform!!! It's not that the guys at Cineform don't know what they are doing it's ADOBE that is using ALL OF US a beta testers and charging us for it on every up (down) grade!! Put the blame where it belongs on Adobe and Adobe alone... CS4 is a total POS and we all know it. Now with CS5 on the horizon we sit here like Pavlov's dogs waiting for the bell to ring. I will not be buying another Adobe product EVER!! I'm soooooo tired of being a test subject that I can not stand it anymore. The only reason that I can get anything done is because of Cineform's intermediate codec and even still it's very slow going. David and the guys do a good job on making a total POS at least function. Adobe and PC, so long I have had it with you!!!! Everyone here seems to blame a plug-in for CS4 not working when CS4 itself DOES NOT WORK WORTH A FLIP!!! When Adobe can offer a product that can hold a candle to even the most basic editor maybe I will be back, but until then.... David keep up the good work and keep the updates coming, maybe Adobe will finally see the light when Final Cut and Vegas put them out of business. Good thing After Effects works or they would be done. But you can do so much in Final Cut that the basic functions of AE are not even needed. (RANT off)
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Old November 15th, 2009, 11:06 PM   #41
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What Jerry and Graham said.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:18 AM   #42
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I don't know too much about delays caused by problems with Adobe etc., but I do think that to extend an 8 week delivery schedule by about 5 weeks shows a distinct lack of foresight! Maybe I'll try that the next time we are pushed on a completion date.

What is really painful though is to be told that it's due to development of 3D software.

Things which were, at the time they were offered, key reasons for customers to invest their hard-earned cash - like full BlackMagic support - seem to get pushed into the background at CineForm.

Just my two penneth.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:48 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Newman View Post
and soon Linux
Wow! This is excellent news. I can't wait to test this.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:52 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Jerry Porter View Post
Now with CS5 on the horizon we sit here like Pavlov's dogs waiting for the bell to ring. When Adobe can offer a product that can hold a candle to even the most basic editor maybe I will be back, but until then....
Ringing the bell for ya Jerry.... you'll enjoy this:
CS5 Revealed! Publicious
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Old November 16th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #45
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Now that is FUNNY!!!
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