Mixing 720p and 1080i on same timeline at DVinfo.net

Rich Perry · December 8th, 2009, 04:54 AM

I am trying to mix 2 formats together in the same timeline. 1080i shot with a Sony FX1 and 720p at 60fps shot on a JVC HD200. I am using prospect HD and loaded a Cineform preset into CS3 (1280x720 - 59.94p).

All is good with the 720p footage from the JVC however with the 1080i footage being at the wrong resolution naturally over scales in the timeline. This is probably a stupid question but is there anyway to bring the 1080i (intermediate) footage onto the timeline and have it downscale automatically to 1280x720 without the need for rendering? The 1080i footage is being interpreted at 29.97 and playback and rendered file seems OK although I am not sure if there is a quality loss on the 1080i footage rendering to 720p.

Hopefully someone has a good solution or workflow for multiple formats within CS3.
Thanks for any help!

Graham Hickling · December 8th, 2009, 09:35 AM

Not quite what you asked, but Cineform's HDLink can do a nice convertion from 1080i to 720p either during capture from the FX1, or as a standaone conversion of your already-captured 1080i CFHD files.

Rich Perry · December 8th, 2009, 11:37 AM

Hi Graham, HDlink is great at these conversions but
I was hoping to eliminate a step and rather then re-render
all my 1080i footage, just render it all out at the end.
I believe FCP offers this ability but was not sure if it's possible with
cineform and CS3.

any ideas how I can make both resolutions work on
a timeline without resizing one of them first?

David Newman · December 8th, 2009, 12:26 PM

We allow 720p in 1080 timelines, but not the other way round (without rendering.)

Rich Perry · December 8th, 2009, 02:40 PM

Thanks for the info David,

Is there a specific way of doing this? I opened a new cineform timeline 1080i (1440x1080) and imported a 720p (60fps) clip encoded already converted to cineform at 1280 x 720 and I still getting a red bar indicating rendering is required.

The strange this is when playing the clip without rendering, it plays back upscaled to fit with the rest of the 1080i footage, but after rendering it remains at the original smaller 1280 x 720 size,

David Newman · December 8th, 2009, 03:50 PM

You need to set, Default scale to frame size, in the Premiere preferences, and that render to the wrong size goes away. The Red bar will remain, but playback will work in RT.

Rich Perry · December 8th, 2009, 05:09 PM

Thanks David!

One last question for you if you don't mind. I am assuming that given this work flow, If I output both formats (720p and 1080i) from my (1080i) timeline to a 720p progressive file I am not loosing anything quality wise?

The source 720p clips are 59.94 fps so for best results should I be outputing a 720 x 1280 (1 for 1 pixel) 59.94 fps avi file?
Or mabey a 1080i file?

Thanks again for you help on this!

David Newman · December 8th, 2009, 07:48 PM

You will lose quality when mixing, that can't be helped. If you want a 60p output, editing in 720p60 and transcode your 1080i source down. 1080i30 is only 30 fps.

Rich Perry · December 9th, 2009, 04:03 AM

Thanks for the info David, it looks like a 720p timeline might be best option and down converting the 1080i in HDlink before importing.

December 8th, 2009, 04:54 AM	#1
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	Mixing 720p and 1080i on same timeline I am trying to mix 2 formats together in the same timeline. 1080i shot with a Sony FX1 and 720p at 60fps shot on a JVC HD200. I am using prospect HD and loaded a Cineform preset into CS3 (1280x720 - 59.94p). All is good with the 720p footage from the JVC however with the 1080i footage being at the wrong resolution naturally over scales in the timeline. This is probably a stupid question but is there anyway to bring the 1080i (intermediate) footage onto the timeline and have it downscale automatically to 1280x720 without the need for rendering? The 1080i footage is being interpreted at 29.97 and playback and rendered file seems OK although I am not sure if there is a quality loss on the 1080i footage rendering to 720p. Hopefully someone has a good solution or workflow for multiple formats within CS3. Thanks for any help!

December 8th, 2009, 12:26 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	We allow 720p in 1080 timelines, but not the other way round (without rendering.) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 8th, 2009, 03:50 PM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You need to set, Default scale to frame size, in the Premiere preferences, and that render to the wrong size goes away. The Red bar will remain, but playback will work in RT. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 8th, 2009, 07:48 PM	#8
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You will lose quality when mixing, that can't be helped. If you want a 60p output, editing in 720p60 and transcode your 1080i source down. 1080i30 is only 30 fps. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 8th, 2009, 09:35 AM	#2
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Not quite what you asked, but Cineform's HDLink can do a nice convertion from 1080i to 720p either during capture from the FX1, or as a standaone conversion of your already-captured 1080i CFHD files.

December 8th, 2009, 11:37 AM	#3
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	Hi Graham, HDlink is great at these conversions but I was hoping to eliminate a step and rather then re-render all my 1080i footage, just render it all out at the end. I believe FCP offers this ability but was not sure if it's possible with cineform and CS3. any ideas how I can make both resolutions work on a timeline without resizing one of them first?

December 8th, 2009, 02:40 PM	#5
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	Thanks for the info David, Is there a specific way of doing this? I opened a new cineform timeline 1080i (1440x1080) and imported a 720p (60fps) clip encoded already converted to cineform at 1280 x 720 and I still getting a red bar indicating rendering is required. The strange this is when playing the clip without rendering, it plays back upscaled to fit with the rest of the 1080i footage, but after rendering it remains at the original smaller 1280 x 720 size,

December 8th, 2009, 05:09 PM	#7
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	Thanks David! One last question for you if you don't mind. I am assuming that given this work flow, If I output both formats (720p and 1080i) from my (1080i) timeline to a 720p progressive file I am not loosing anything quality wise? The source 720p clips are 59.94 fps so for best results should I be outputing a 720 x 1280 (1 for 1 pixel) 59.94 fps avi file? Or mabey a 1080i file? Thanks again for you help on this!

December 9th, 2009, 04:03 AM	#9
Rich Perry Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 278	Thanks for the info David, it looks like a 720p timeline might be best option and down converting the 1080i in HDlink before importing.