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Old January 30th, 2010, 05:07 AM   #1
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PHD PP and camera shake

Just need a little hepl I have some footage that is Need to remove some camera what software is compatiable with CF and what do you recommend?
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Old January 30th, 2010, 12:55 PM   #2
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Deshaker

Bruce, I really recommend Deshaker http://www.guthspot.se/video/deshaker.htm . This is a batch program that runs in Virtualdub, and it works with CF .avi files. I have tried lots of stabilizing software and this is the best I've found - it does a very good job.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 05:27 PM   #3
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Hi Charles I think that is very nice stablizer!! How do you use it in your work flow? Do you do individual clips before editing then or do you edit then output to CF then run it thru the deshaker?

Oh what settings do you mostly use. Thanks Bruce
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Old January 30th, 2010, 05:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Bruce Gruber View Post
How do you use it in your work flow? Do you do individual clips before editing then or do you edit then output to CF then run it thru the deshaker?

Oh what settings do you mostly use.
The first part of the work flow is when shooting; run the shutter speed up a little if you think you will need stabilization; this may not give the best cinema effect but it helps with stabilization; of course if you have already shot the video you need to use what you have.

My work flow is:
Convert the clips to CF avi with HDLink
Run the clips through Deshaker, output to CF avi
Load the clips in the editor

Also, I tend not to run Deshaker with Virtualdub but I use it with Video Enhancer Video Enhancer by Infognition just because I like the interface better. Deshaker is a two pass filter. For the settings pass 1 & 2, if you have a camera with a rolling shutter issue (I have a Canon 5DMkII which has a rolling shutter) click this box and set a % value (I use 70%). For Pass 1 try starting with the default values. For Pass 2 try the mode "Use previous and future frames to fill in borders", and set the rest of the values at default. In this mode you will get stable video without the usual telephoto effect and loss of resolution that other stabilizers have. This mode does slip the video out 30 frames from the audio, which you correct in the editor.

After you've worked with Deshaker for a while you can learn to vary from the defaults. And after a while the workflow is very easy.

Last edited by Charles W. Hull; January 30th, 2010 at 05:53 PM. Reason: typo
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Old January 30th, 2010, 06:43 PM   #5
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Thanks Charles, I am using Sony FX-1000 and the Z5U Cmos sensor so yes rolling shutter could be an issue..

You mentioned the audio throwing it off 30frames? How do you correct that in the editor? I use PPCS3 Which direction does it throw the audio off?
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Old January 30th, 2010, 08:02 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bruce Gruber View Post
I am using Sony FX-1000 and the Z5U Cmos sensor so yes rolling shutter could be an issue..

You mentioned the audio throwing it off 30frames? How do you correct that in the editor? I use PPCS3 Which direction does it throw the audio off?
The directions for Deshaker cover what's going on. The first second of video moves out a second, and it is filled in with black. The last second of video is lost. With the clip loaded in PP right click the clip and select 'unlink'. Then move the audio right 30 frames. Use the rolling edit tool to take the first second off the video and the last second off the audio. Then select the video and audio, right click and select 'link'. Again, you will figure all this out once you start working with Deshaker.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 06:10 PM   #7
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Mercalli:

I use Mercalli from Prodad and love it.

Easy to use and works great in PPCS4 and cineform files.

There is a trial version. Check it out.

proDAD - Mercalli -- Video Stabilizer

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Old February 2nd, 2010, 01:49 AM   #8
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I agree- the Mercalli Pro version plugs into both PPCS4 and AECS4 as a filter. Drag it onto a clip in the timeline like any other PPro filter (remove any transitions first) and the dialog interface opens automatically. You can then use one of their many presets, or customize your own setting to the requirement at hand & hit go. It's fast and very effective. The stabilization can cause a little image softness, but much, much less noticable/ distracting than the camera shake. The softness seems no more than with other software I've used for image stabilization, including AE CS4. It has several alternatives for handling the frame margins as well.
Also, I've noticed no problems with audio synch.
Quick & easy- I love it
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 09:43 PM   #9
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Bob,
I was looking at the Mercalli tutorial.
I was wondering if you felt the slight zoom in required to cover the frame movement was too bothersome.

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Old February 2nd, 2010, 11:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Zimmer View Post
I use Mercalli from Prodad and love it.
I have Mercalli and use it with PP. A problem with CS4 is you can't stabilize trimmed clips (unless that has been fixed after my version) so you have to stabilize the whole clip, export it, and then bring it back in for trimming. This can be a pretty slow process. It does work with trimmed clips with CS3.

My experience is I can get quite a bit better results with Deshaker, and it is much faster.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 01:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rich View Post
Bob,
I was looking at the Mercalli tutorial.
I was wondering if you felt the slight zoom in required to cover the frame movement was too bothersome.

John Rich
Mercalli gives you 3 options for handling the border area, one of which is to "upscale" the frame. This increases the image softness, so I don't use it. Static or dynamic leaves the scale intact and usually works well enough. If I am still left with distracting artifact at the border I can crop the border of the entire movie by the necessary amount when I export to AME. Unlike upscaling, cropping doesn't effect image sharpness.

Charles- The latest version of Mercalli can be applied to clips on the PPCS4 timeline just like any other PPro filter. You do need to remove any transitions first, but this version is very fast and convenient in CS4.
One minor annoyance with the Mercalli mothership (proDad): their system of product registration, registration key assignment, and updating seems rather clumsy.
But it is indeed a clever product.
I should mention results and expectations: There are time consuming workflows (in AE for example) that can turn your shaky shot almost into a tripod shot. Mercalli is a level below this. If my goal is to quickly take a shot that is not really usable due to shake and roll, Mercalli can rescue it into a usable shot. It doesn't eleminate all movement, but converts distracting shake into subtle drift that usually passes without notice. Bottom line- you can use the shot, but it is not "locked down" solid. It's what you'd call "good enough".
Some specific situations are actually brilliant: a tele of a bird flying thru the blue sky, bird wandering all over the frame: Mercalli can center the bird, apply static margins & fill with the blue sky color & it does look like a tripod shot!
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Last edited by Robert Young; February 4th, 2010 at 01:32 AM.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 01:17 PM   #12
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I want to add a couple more points. First, AE CS4 comes with Mocha AE, built-in, which does a very good job of correcting camera shake:

Imagineer Systems - Products

There is also a stand alone version of Mocha and versions for other NLEs. You can also upgrade the AE version for a nominal fee. Of course, AE has it's own stabilization routine, which works well for correcting many problems. Mocha, unlike the other stabilizers, uses a plane-based algorithm, rather than tracking the movement of groups of pixels ("point tracking"). The theory is, that if your clip has a planar object in it (or an object that stays, more or less in a specific plane), it is easier to track unintended camera movements.

Both Mercalli and Deshaker do a good job of stabilizing camera movement, but all of the approaches (including Mocha) still have to rely on interpolation between adjacent frames, so the final, stabilized product, is never going to be without some blurriness, distortion and resizing. I've used all three products, for stabilizing images and I always come back to Mocha, since it it just seems the most intuitive for me. Note that there is an interface for Deshaker that works with Sony Vegas Pro as a video FX:

Deshaker Interface for Sony Vegas Pro

On final point. Cineform is invaluable for doing this kind of work, since in my workflow, I always use the stabilizing software on a specific clip and then re-render the stabilized clip using the almost lossless CFHD, once I am satisifed with the result. I know some people, just try to add the stabilization effect to the "shaky" event on a complex timeline, but I think that a sequential approach to stabilization is a better alternative.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 02:24 PM   #13
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The latest version of Mercalli allows you to use the filter on trimmed clips from one clip.

You do not need to use the filter on the whole clip.

I am using CS4. Not sure about CS3.

I bought it for 90 bucks and that was the expert version.

B&H Photo as usual. Great store!

Simon
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 01:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Bloomfield View Post
I want to add a couple more points. First, AE CS4 comes with Mocha AE, built-in, which does a very good job of correcting camera shake:
I agree that Mocha does a terriffic job.
The workflow is much more time consuming than Mercali, but if you have an important clip, with significant shake and roll, and it needs to be as good and as sharp as possible, Mocha is a great way to go. I'm using the freestanding version 2.1 (Mocha for AE). After applying the Mocha stabilization in AE, I expand the scale enough to fill the frame, import into PPro CS4, add an unsharp mask and it looks as good as the original footage, except very stable.
As was mentioned earlier, it's the hunky 10 bit CF codec that allows you to get away with such good results after so much "abuse".
Good video demo of Mocha image stabilization workflow here:
Imagineer Systems - Products
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 06:16 AM   #15
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I have looked at Mercalli and Deshaker I have not played with Mocha.. I really do not care how long it takes I would just want the best results without Blur... With todays HD you can really notice blury Vs Sharp.
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