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Old August 4th, 2005, 09:56 PM   #16
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David I tried those settings and it will not export it as widescreen, even though I mad that choice, it still ends up with a file that is 0.9 aspect, the settings are there, but won't produce the file. I am using cineform, not HDV cineform (adobe one)


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Old August 4th, 2005, 10:13 PM   #17
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same thing on another system, just to make sure, same problem. I have an HDV project,export movie,settings,file type=Cineform HD export, go to video, Cineform HD codec, 720x480 (says 16:9 aspect), 29.97, pixel aspect ratio is D1/DV widescreen (1.2), keyframe progressive or lower (both yield the same results, gives me a 0.9 aspect ratio. Hope this was clear.


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Old August 4th, 2005, 10:37 PM   #18
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Where do you see 0.9 aspect ratio? Are you saying it letterboxes? Or the way the 720x480 plays back on your desktop? I know this works as I just did it on a personal project a few days ago and made a very nice anamorphic DVD.
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Old August 4th, 2005, 10:58 PM   #19
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Hi David, If I look at the files properties in premiere, it says 0.9 and it visually is not correct, now if I export using microsoft dv avi, widescreen, it appears fine, no matter what setting (even using adobe HDV, or microsft avi with Cineform 2.0 codec, they all , except when I use microsoft dv avi, come out with 0.9 aspect, I verified this on 2 systems, maybe you could try a 3 second work area export real quick to see?


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Old August 5th, 2005, 01:28 AM   #20
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Right click on the 720x480 clip and select "Interpret Footage..." to select 16x9 -- sorry I forgot to tell you that step. I will look into why SD is assumed to be 4x3.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 06:54 AM   #21
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Hi David, here is another observation I noticed. When I export to SD and check the properties of the file it says 8bit 4:2:2 (exporting as you stated) isn't it supposed to be 4:4:4?, anyway, if I export using microsoft avi and cineform HD 2.0, choosing millions+, I end up with a 10bit 4:2:2 file, if I take the two identical tracks (different compressors), stack them on top of eachother in a Premiere timeline, click the "eyeball" to switch back and forth between the clips, there is a considerable detail difference between the two, with the 10bit clip looking noticeably better (more shadow detail), so from that observation, that would seem to be the best export at this time (cineform HD 2.0), I also did an uncompressed version (microsoft avi) the aspect ratio is fine that route. I took both the uncompressed and the cineform HD 2.0 compressed clip and checked them on the timeline and they looked identical, both good quality (of course your compressor made the file 1/10 the size. Hope this helps.

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Old August 5th, 2005, 09:51 AM   #22
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David probably can't say it but the Adobe Media Encoder that comes with Ppro is a lightweight and gives you very few options. In this case it cannot take the fields as they are handed off during transitions. Even without that problem the variables for making Dvds that you can access are too limited. I have tried tried a couple exports from a CFHD timeline to Procoder 2 and I am not seeing any change in field dominance problems during transitions. Canopus offers Procoder Express which also plugs into Ppro and costs 60 bucks....as far as DVD making is concerned the only difference between the full version and express is you do not have master quality....it still does 2 pass and you can play all you want with the bitrates and if you like AME you will be amazed at what you are missing and can get for 60 bucks. The render engine in Express is the same as the full version....you may want to consider this option. The only question I have is whether 4:4:4 is being handed off from the TL to Procoder...the quality is great that I can see and I am looking at it on an external.

Update to post....I have played with the AME some more and I can find places where it must see CFHD as lower at the first of a clip(shaky playback of mpeg at first) then in the middle of playback it gets it right(upper) and the playback is smooth. I have an mpeg it made that I can change the playback field order and 1/2 plays fine and the other is wrong....when I change it from upper to lower the right and wrong switch.There is a transition a few seconds down the TL from it but the problem is there before the T starts. Get a real encoder is my suggestion

Last edited by Randy Donato; August 5th, 2005 at 10:25 AM.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 10:34 AM   #23
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Hi David, does anything check out with my post?

Thanks
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Old August 5th, 2005, 11:04 AM   #24
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There are a couple of items that need my attention (like the false reporting 10-bit, that is confusing). The shadow detail is not what you think you are seeing. If you switch off Video Systems RGB you will get the same "shadow detail" as the standard export. The problem is the old Video For Window interface can't handle vsRGB so it will boost the black level (make you think you have more detail -- more related to your monitor's response.) Use the CineForm HD Export does have the higher quality for many reasons.

The CineForm HD codec is 4:2:2 not 4:4:4 (yet.) When you do the downscale to SD you do have 4:4:4 precision in image data before compression. As compressed deliverables are 4:2:2 or lower we use 4:2:2 on export.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 11:11 AM   #25
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Hi David, this was not a a computer monitor thing, I output it to the television through firewire and there is a big difference. I clicked back and forth and the details were definately noticeable especially around the eyes of the subject

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Old August 5th, 2005, 11:32 AM   #26
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It is still for the reason I said. Aspect HD stores a higher dynamic range for video than standard RGB. Standard RGB black or 0,0,0 maps to 16 in Luma (and 0-15 luma are unused.) In most camera source 0-15 (sub-blacks) do contain useful information, yet Adobe typically chops these off. When you have Video Standard RGB switched on we map tradition 0,0,0 black to 16,16,16 (allowing access to sub-black data.) This is of course very cool and a great feature of Aspect HD (unfornately one that is hard for many to understand.) However you aren't using that feature correctly with the way you are doing your export (due to the limitation of the VfW interface.) You would get the same (well better) results with CineForm HD Export and applying a contrast adjustment to bring up the sub-blacks. i.e. a color correction phase. At the moment you are just applying a -15% contrast adjustment to your whole image. You will get even better results is you active control this feature, allowing you to get at quality image data.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 11:56 AM   #27
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Well I am still having trouble capturing since I upgraded to 3.2, but that is another issue...

Could I frameserve from premiere to cce sp mpeg2 encode for example and keep all the colorspace intact? I am using debugmode for frameserving. Debug mode had RGB24 and YUV options.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 12:03 PM   #28
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"cce sp mpeg2" ??
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Old August 5th, 2005, 12:15 PM   #29
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Frameserve to an external encoder. Like to Vegas 6 for instance which does a great conversion to 24p mpeg2 with pulldown in its internal mainconcept encoder.
I do this alot with SD DV work, and I'm just wondering if anybody knows how frameserving works in HDV? I will be testing this soon, but wanted to see if anyone else had tried.

Using frameserve keeps me from have to export a copy of large projects to save space and preserve an extra generation on HDV rendering.

CCE SP is custom technologies mpeg encoder, but it does not work well for me in Prem Pro so I have export to use it.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 01:31 PM   #30
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Hi David, please forgive my ignorance, but I exported both clips with the vsRGB setting on, one was video for windows with the aspect HD 2.0 compressor, the other was Cineform HD export, first was fine the second was dark, I have to go through an extra step with contrast adjustment for the other (Cineform HD export) sorry if I am missing something here. Both are being exported with it on (vsRGB).

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