Upgrade Info NeoHD V4 > V5? at DVinfo.net

David Dwyer · May 15th, 2010, 06:15 PM

I have to say I'm thinking about dropping Cineform but I would like everyone else’s thoughts.

I don’t use first light and with me now moving to CS5 and MPE as well as upgrading to a 4GHz overclocked I7 I can’t see much reason to upgrade to the new CineForm Product.

I'm moving from an AMD Quad core 2.1 GHz to Intel i7 2.66 GHz overclocked to 4GHz with 12GB of ram and using GTX 275 while I wait for support for the GTX 480.

Cameras I use Sony Z1 with MRC1K and Sony HDR-CX105E (AVCHD)

I cant see much reason why to carry on using CineForm unless someone can show me a reason?

Should I be using First light? I use Magic Bullet looks and a couple of other effects but that’s it.

Robert Young · May 15th, 2010, 10:47 PM

For my purposes, Cineform provides a lossless 10 bit, 4:2:2 video file that I can be sure will not be degraded by the editing process. When editing is finished and the project is transcoded to my final delivery formats, I know I will be getting the best final image quality possible.
Fast computers, 64 bit OS, CS5 with MPE + CUDA improve the editing experience for the editor- with RT playback, less rendering, faster rendering- but absolutely does not address the issue of what happens to the highly compressed acquisition format images (AVCHD, XDCam, etc.) when they are natively edited/ filtered/ color corrected, & otherwise beat up on, and, on top of that, then transcoded to another highly compressed delivery format.
Historically, CF has improved the editing experience with their RT playback and other features, and that has been a nice selling point for them, but IMO the primary mission of CF from the beginning was always to preserve the image quality throughout the editing process, all the way to final delivery.
From my perspective, nothing has changed regarding that issue & CF remains a valuable product to me.

David Dwyer · May 16th, 2010, 04:16 AM

Robert I still own NeoHD V4 and will carry on using it but since I don't use FL I can't see any reason to upgrade, unless I'm missing something?

Marty Baggen · May 16th, 2010, 07:54 AM

David,

The big jump that was offered to us former ProspectHD users was the upgrade to Neo4K.. It's 12-bit 4:4:4 colorspace which makes it a bulletproof archival format in addition to the editing performance, albeit a bit less of a need in that department nowadays if previewing smoothness is your only concern.

I mostly neglected First Light for many months, but I would suggest this challenge if you are of the mind.

Create a project, no matter the length or complexity. Use whatever non Cineform codec. Then go back and make corrections for color vector and waveform levels using whatever tools you prefer.

Then do the same project with your files in CFHD and make your corrections with First Light.

For me, the First Light work flow is really sweet, and the meta data stays with the raw footage so if you re edit down the road, half your work is done already. My work flow often includes a First Light pass on all my raw footage for color correction. Load of the clips and essentially do a batch process by hand. It goes fast when you get in the groove.

A brief diversion.... a feature request of Adobe: Can we please have a realtime overlay of vector and waveform monitoring? Edius does it and it's wonderful.

For my final output.... with my MXF source material, my options aren't many. Premiere doesn't offer an MXF output. For the fun of it, I have output an MXF master from Edius, but it does not hold up as well as CFHD, and it isn't designed to. It's an acquisition format and a decent edit format, but certainly not an archival or distribution format.

I too struggled with the pros and cons of Cineform in today's current NLE environment. With a few projects done with Edius 5 during the death throes of CS4, I found a lean and clean NLE, and it is now forever my field edit companion for rough draft client stuff..... but for anything that is a finished piece that is going to end up on Discovery or TLC, it's got to be as perfect as I can get it. First Light is the most amazing tool set for that task.... and now, Adobe has at last come up with an NLE host that is worthy of integrating it.

I still find it so ironic that with CS5 we all sort of collectively reached a point where we wonder if we still need Cineform, when in reality.... where it not for Cineform, a lot of us would not have hung around for CS5.

Bottomline, they make a powerful combo if your work needs the tools.

May 15th, 2010, 06:15 PM	#1
David Dwyer Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chester, North West Posts: 565	Upgrade Info NeoHD V4 > V5? I have to say I'm thinking about dropping Cineform but I would like everyone else’s thoughts. I don’t use first light and with me now moving to CS5 and MPE as well as upgrading to a 4GHz overclocked I7 I can’t see much reason to upgrade to the new CineForm Product. I'm moving from an AMD Quad core 2.1 GHz to Intel i7 2.66 GHz overclocked to 4GHz with 12GB of ram and using GTX 275 while I wait for support for the GTX 480. Cameras I use Sony Z1 with MRC1K and Sony HDR-CX105E (AVCHD) I cant see much reason why to carry on using CineForm unless someone can show me a reason? Should I be using First light? I use Magic Bullet looks and a couple of other effects but that’s it.

May 15th, 2010, 10:47 PM	#2
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	For my purposes, Cineform provides a lossless 10 bit, 4:2:2 video file that I can be sure will not be degraded by the editing process. When editing is finished and the project is transcoded to my final delivery formats, I know I will be getting the best final image quality possible. Fast computers, 64 bit OS, CS5 with MPE + CUDA improve the editing experience for the editor- with RT playback, less rendering, faster rendering- but absolutely does not address the issue of what happens to the highly compressed acquisition format images (AVCHD, XDCam, etc.) when they are natively edited/ filtered/ color corrected, & otherwise beat up on, and, on top of that, then transcoded to another highly compressed delivery format. Historically, CF has improved the editing experience with their RT playback and other features, and that has been a nice selling point for them, but IMO the primary mission of CF from the beginning was always to preserve the image quality throughout the editing process, all the way to final delivery. From my perspective, nothing has changed regarding that issue & CF remains a valuable product to me. __________________ Bob Last edited by Robert Young; May 15th, 2010 at 11:19 PM.

May 16th, 2010, 04:16 AM	#3
David Dwyer Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chester, North West Posts: 565	Robert I still own NeoHD V4 and will carry on using it but since I don't use FL I can't see any reason to upgrade, unless I'm missing something?

May 16th, 2010, 07:54 AM	#4
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	David, The big jump that was offered to us former ProspectHD users was the upgrade to Neo4K.. It's 12-bit 4:4:4 colorspace which makes it a bulletproof archival format in addition to the editing performance, albeit a bit less of a need in that department nowadays if previewing smoothness is your only concern. I mostly neglected First Light for many months, but I would suggest this challenge if you are of the mind. Create a project, no matter the length or complexity. Use whatever non Cineform codec. Then go back and make corrections for color vector and waveform levels using whatever tools you prefer. Then do the same project with your files in CFHD and make your corrections with First Light. For me, the First Light work flow is really sweet, and the meta data stays with the raw footage so if you re edit down the road, half your work is done already. My work flow often includes a First Light pass on all my raw footage for color correction. Load of the clips and essentially do a batch process by hand. It goes fast when you get in the groove. A brief diversion.... a feature request of Adobe: Can we please have a realtime overlay of vector and waveform monitoring? Edius does it and it's wonderful. For my final output.... with my MXF source material, my options aren't many. Premiere doesn't offer an MXF output. For the fun of it, I have output an MXF master from Edius, but it does not hold up as well as CFHD, and it isn't designed to. It's an acquisition format and a decent edit format, but certainly not an archival or distribution format. I too struggled with the pros and cons of Cineform in today's current NLE environment. With a few projects done with Edius 5 during the death throes of CS4, I found a lean and clean NLE, and it is now forever my field edit companion for rough draft client stuff..... but for anything that is a finished piece that is going to end up on Discovery or TLC, it's got to be as perfect as I can get it. First Light is the most amazing tool set for that task.... and now, Adobe has at last come up with an NLE host that is worthy of integrating it. I still find it so ironic that with CS5 we all sort of collectively reached a point where we wonder if we still need Cineform, when in reality.... where it not for Cineform, a lot of us would not have hung around for CS5. Bottomline, they make a powerful combo if your work needs the tools.