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Old July 3rd, 2010, 12:25 PM   #1
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Neo HD/FCP/Mac Workflow Help: Audio

Does anyone have some general guidance for Cineform workflow in Final Cut Pro?

I'm smitten with First Light, the fidelity of the Cineform colors to DSLR H.264, and the concept of converting a variety of camera source files to the same Cineform Master format.

Trying to put the trial edition into full practice, I'm discovering that I don't know exactly how to proceed in certain instances, particularly when I have a source clip with multichannel audio. I've scoured the CF Techblog to no avail, so figured I'd hit up my friends at DVINFO.

ReMastering a 4 channel DVCPRO HD/P2 Clip, for instance, which has 2 channels of audio that are recorded in camera as four channels (2 low, 2 high sensitivity), reduces the audio to single channel Mono in the CF Master. (How does this work: are both of the original files mixed down to mono?)

In some instances (often with DSLRs), this is of no concern, as I'm running dual sound. But, often I would prefer to work with the multichannel audio still linked to the source clip. Also, I thought one of the beautiful things about Cineform was that the fidelity was so high--often even superior visually to the original--that one could theoretically delete, or at least not need to back up as vigorously, the original source files. If Cineform does not keep the original audio, which seems to be the case, I suppose I do indeed need to back up those originals, or maybe at the very least somehow splice out and backup the audio.

So, my question may be more a FCP question, really, than a Cineform one; while my *suggestion* (David Newman) is for the guys at Cineform allow for multichannel audio. If they can do stereo visuals, I'm almost certain they can do stereo sound. I understand coming from the feature film world "in camera" sound may be somewhat frowned upon--but it's two channels of useable audio that, while not often the only audio on set, are quite essential to the independent filmmaker.

But, as things stand, is there a simple way to link the source clip audio back up with the CF Master, outside of a FCP sequence, where the CF file in the bin will have multichannel? What is the most efficient way to work in this scenario, where I want those two/four channels of audio in sync as with the original file?

I know I could create a sequence containing every orginal file and swap out the video track, relock the audio with CF video--but this seems less than ideal always having to create a sequence, and having to export from that sequence to other projects. I could just somehow export the audio and put it in a folder/bin with the CF files...these are my suggestions so far to myself, hopefully someone has more brilliant ideas.

Thanks in advance for any help or ideas, (or solutions from the CF dudes), Happy Fourth to All, and Happy World Cup Finale to Mis Amigos Internacionales,

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Old July 6th, 2010, 09:35 AM   #2
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Audio and Cineform, How To

Sorry for my longwinded tome of a post. In short:

1. Is mono sound the only option for ReMastered Cineform Files?
2. If not, how do I enable ReMaster to output stereo or multichannel?
3. If so, what is the most coherent solution or general guidelines for working with multichannel audio after we "lose" it in ReMastering?
a. Should I just work from FCP CF sequences, linking the original audio with the Remastered video, and exporting all clips for all projects from that master sequence?
b. What about backup? Cineform was supposed to provide my new "masters," but they don't contain usable audio--should I just focus on backing up the originals as if the Cineform files don't exist, as they effectively don't with regards to audio?

If the answer to question 1 is "no," answer 2 quickly follows, and this all will be very simple. I might look stupid, but at least I will have made everything more obvious for the next neophyte. More likely it's a little more complicated--huge thanks in advance to anyone who can give me a hand in sorting it out; I think it will be helpful as a reference for this forum. Or maybe I'm just mental.

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Old July 6th, 2010, 10:58 AM   #3
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Send source samples to support, and this is clearly a camera support issue, as we do support stereo (by default).
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Old July 20th, 2010, 10:44 AM   #4
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Still waiting on MOV DVCPRO audio fix; Sizing question


Thanks for your attention on this. I recently tested the July 12th build and the problem persists. Jake Seagraves has been responsive, and says he's waiting to hear from the engineers about a solution for this issue, but we've been waiting for a while. Please lean on them to include a fix for this in the next build.

Really wanting to First Light some ReMastered DVCPRO HD files alongside my other formats, and work with MultiCam edits in Final Cut on a CF timeline--but right now, losing my audio tracks makes that problematic.

Related sidenote/question: when ReMaster is fixed for DVCPRO HD source footage--and I've read your post from last year on the HVX on the techblog--if I'm mixing 720 pN and 1080 pA P2 footage with 1080p Sony XDCAM and Canon EOS in a Cineform 422 timeline, would I want to resize all the HVX/P2 to 1920x1080 to match, even though, as you remark on the techblog, the quality-for-file-size gain from the HVX footage would be minimal? Isn't an uprez inevitable at some point to match the other footage, and isn't ReMaster the best program to accomplish that? Suggestions welcome.

I trust you guys will have this fixed soon. Thanks so much, Joe
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