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Old August 24th, 2011, 01:55 AM   #1
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Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

I was wondering what issues might come up with "one light" color correction going from Cineform Log90 to DPX.

Q1) How is white balance controlled in the de-Bayer processing within cf2dpx, is there a menu with sliders?

Q2) How is the EI/ISO controlled in the de-Bayer processing within cf2dpx, is there a menu with sliders?

Q3) Can I expect the DPX to be fully color balanced or will I need to run them through additional color correction, and if so what is the lowest cost solution that does not degrade the 10bpc DPX data to 8bpc?
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Old August 24th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #2
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

You must do you color and debayer settings in FirstLight (answer Q1,2 & 3) that cf2dpx.exe will develop with those parameters.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 10:48 AM   #3
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

Thanks for your reply David,

I am thinking of getting one of the KineRAW cameras from KineRAW-S35 (Kinefinity.com) and was wondering what code value I should use as my "target" value for an 18% Gray card making 64-940 range DPX files that are for monitor viewing, like Rec.709 type.

Sometimes these type of DPX are called LIN by some NLE/DI software.

Anyway, I guess I can adjust "FirstLight" to get a test shot of a Kodak 18% gray card to have the 18% gray come out to the target code value between 64 and 940, but I am unsure of exactly what code value that shold be for Rec.709 type files?

Can you please tell me what the exact target code value should be for 18% Gray subject when shot at the stated EI/ISO the camera is set to?

Thank you for your help in this matter.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 10:45 PM   #4
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

Aim for 416.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 01:03 AM   #5
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

Thanks for the reply David.

I was wondering if Rec.709 files with 64-940 range and midtone at 416 are the right file to use for making a DCP without additional LUT adjustments? (projector set to gamma 2.6 for darkened room viewing)

If a 0-1023 "LIN" DPX is needed, what would the target midtone (18% gray subject) code value be?
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Old August 26th, 2011, 09:32 AM   #6
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

LIN and 2.2 gamma (like Rec 709) and often (incorrectly) used interchangeably. Linear is not 2.2 gamma. Yet Linear should never be used in a 10 bit storage, only 16-bit for true linear -- and that only is useful if effects artists. I don't know enough about preparing DCP to advise. Look into the P3 color space.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 05:28 PM   #7
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

Thanks for the information.

In general are Rec.709 files always 64-940 with midtone at 416, or are there some Rec.709 0-1023 files, and if so how does midtone scale to another value, or stay the same at 416?

==

Do you know anyone at BIRTV trade show in China, maybe they can stop by the Kinefinity.com booth and snap some cell phone photos or video so we can see what is going on there today?
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Old August 26th, 2011, 10:42 PM   #8
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

As a follow up to my asking about photos of the KineRAW cameras, I emailed the guys at Kinefinity.com about some cellphone photos or something and got this answer back:

Quote: [Dan Chung stopped by our booth and made a one-minute video interview which he told us that it would be posted on his website. He is very nice, and he introduced some other foreign guys to visit our machine.]

They are at booth 2B192 BRITV 2011, they don't show up on the company name list since they company name is new, but they confirmed the booth number.

Dan Chung's blog is at this link,

DSLR News Shooter | Making the real world look as good as cinema

==

Also I am interested in getting one of their KineRAW-S8 cameras to use with some Super8 Lenses, like Schneider, Angenieux or Fujica made for the Beaulieu 4000 ZM, or the Fujica ZC1000..

So I may be able to shoot some demo footage myself to check out the results. I'm willing to put up with some rough firmware if I need to because I have a project to do in a remote location and a compact system that shoots uncompressed True RAW 2.5K may fill my needs. I would resize to 2048x858 or 1828x1556 for output.

==

Since the KineRAW-S8 does not have the Cineform (tm) recording option like the KineRAW-S35 and KineRAW-S16 models, I was wondering if I can convert the workprint, finish, or edited frames DPX or TIF files into Cineform (tm) RGB or YUV for 24.000fps playback on a not so fast PC at 2048x858 resolution to check my frame set before I output on the film recorder or make a DCP with the 2048x858 frames? My monitor is analog 2048x1536 desktop resolution. If so which Cineform (tm) utility do I do that with, and about what would the conversion time be for 200000 frames?
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Old August 26th, 2011, 11:35 PM   #9
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

CineForm can encode well over 100 frames per second, however you disk system is unlikely to be about to deliver that. Generally we encode as fast as your disk can send the data.
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Old August 27th, 2011, 01:57 PM   #10
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

That encode rate sounds great, but maybe my harddrives are only about 4fps to 8fps at 2048x858.

I was wondering if there is a way for the Cineform (tm) player to chain several Cineform (tm) files so that I could encode parts of a project and then play back the whole project without breaks without having to edit all the parts together?

==

BTW, some photos have been posted of the KineRAW-S35 camera that records Cineform (tm) Log90 format at this link,

DSLR News Shooter | BIRTV 2011 – China’s answer to Red? The Kinefinity KineRAW S35 digital cinema camera for US$8000

They say there should be a product on the market in maybe 6 months, perhaps...
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Old August 29th, 2011, 02:11 PM   #11
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

Sorry, but I must chime in. Those cameras are only vaporware so I wouldn't be spending all this time and money planning to use them until you have a working unit in your hand. Most love Red and look how long its taken them with Scarlet. There are MANY other 'great' cameras in the last 5 years to materialize as only vaporware but people would tout them as the next greatest thing.

Further, if any of those Chinese cameras use USA patented technology (almost a given), don't expect to ever see them in the US. If you don't think that will happen, just look at their "Apple' stores and exact duplicates of American made cars (GM and others). The way the Patent 'Market' works in our country now is ridiculous but this small Chinese company would have to be a partner with a company who owns US patents. Nowadays, US companies buy and sell patents like stock. IBM is probably the king of owning patents and selling them (they just sold 1000+ patents to Google). Heck, IBM is trying to 'Patent the Patent Process'.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 05:49 PM   #12
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Re: Using cf2dpx with KineRAW.com cameras?

What patents would be involved with recording the RAW data out of a sensor into a SSD that are not already granted by the manfacture of the parts?

It would seem odd for a sensor maker to sell you a sensor that cannot be used in a product?

Part of the sale price of the parts should be the royalty to the patent holders that the part maker needs to be involved with in the first place?
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