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Old October 19th, 2011, 08:35 AM   #1
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Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!

I've posted this in Vegas forum but not no-one had any help.

In a substantial 1080p project the timeline includes:

720p Cineform AVIs digitised from 2007 to 2009
XDCam sd rushes
5d rushes encoded to AVI using Cineform HDLink from NeoScene

If I render any portion of the timeline containing some 720p clips to an AVI encoded with a Cineform codec and then try to use that AVI anywhere it will crash Vegas or fail to play in any application. The AVI is clearly corrupt.

If I render the same segment to any other AVI codec the clip is fine. No problems.

The issue comes from Vegas not scaling some of the Cineform 720p material. If I add an effect I have a useable workaround and Vegas will scale OK.

Now here's the strange bit. Some of the 720p clips render fine and the Cineform AVI is OK. There is no difference between the bad and good rushes clips as they were digitised at the same time from the same tape.

For some unknown reason Vegas is failing to scale the same 720p clips all the time whilst scaling the rest without issue. I've analysed the offending and good 720p material in Virtualdub and found NO difference as far as iFrames is concerned.

So what is Vegas doing?

I should add that Vegas has no trouble scaling any other non 1080p material in this project to Cineform and that I've successfully used the seemingly dodgy rushes in the past without problem. Given that I can render the same clips to ANY other codec without issue leads me to believe this is only an issue with Vegas and certain Cineform files.

Anyone got any ideas? I've had Cineform look at this and whilst they were heroes in finding the workaround they are, at the moment, stumped as to why Vegas is choosing to fail on particular clips.

Anyone any ideas?

I'm also having trouble rendering a cineform AVI to WMV.

No reply from Sony on this issue either.
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Old October 19th, 2011, 07:15 PM   #2
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Re: Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!

You don't say what version of Vegas, or what version of CIneform you are using. Early versions of Vegas had a Cineform Codec included. Vegas does not include in later versions. In mentime, you need the a cineform codec in later versions to read or write cineform files. The reading part can be accomplished by downloading Cineforms player codec available free. But if you want to render Cineform, you need to have the the encoder on board. Cineform was bought out by GoPro, and there is a free version available there that might meet your needs.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 08:18 AM   #3
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Re: Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!

Yep - forgot to mention that!

Vegas Pro 9.0e and latest Cineform codecs from NeoScene. Cineform have done a remote session and were equally clueless as to why Vegas was choosing not to upscale some clips.

I've been using the Vegas Cineform workflow for many years now digitising a variety of tape via HDLink and now converting MOVs and 5d files for use in the timeline.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 01:11 PM   #4
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Re: Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!

I assume you have updated NeoScene

I am using Vegas 10 and have downloaded 11. In 10, I have been fighting the occasional blacking out CIneform files that have been reported in other threads with NeoHD.

It seems like Vegas continues to have issues with Cineform for some reason related to codec. For a long time now, Cineform files show in preview lighter and less contrasty than the same file appears in a standard player.

But there doesn't seem to be anything as fast in encoding, in effeciency of the codec, and in editing out there to replace it.
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Old October 20th, 2011, 02:22 PM   #5
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Re: Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!

The bugs (up to now) with Vegas Pro 11 for me are with Cineform files too.
In a project with Sony MXF 1920X1080 23,97p clips and Cineform NeoHD 1440X1080 23,97p (converted from HDV) in a 1920X1080 23,97p project, the MXF clips display fine, but the Cineform files are distorted.
I attached a screen displaying in the source window a Cineform frame and in the timeline window a MXF frame.
Vegas 9.e and 10 doesn`t show this bug.
Anyone can help?
Attached Thumbnails
Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!-vegas-pro-11-screen.jpg  
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Old October 20th, 2011, 02:24 PM   #6
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Re: Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!

That's exactly the reason we stick with it. When it's working we find it the best solution out there. We adore the intuitive and flexible nature of Vegas and it's stability and coupled with Cineform AVIs on the timeline it's a dream to cut with.

We still have the odd black frame issue and other TINY niggles but nothing - until now - to get upset about, and when I consider the dramas that came with Premier and AVID this is streets ahead.

However, this one is annoying and makes no sense. Jake is certain it's Sony not talking to Cineform in rendering rather than the other way around and he's tried using one of the suspect rushes clips at his end without the issue.

So this looks like it has something to do with how Sony is rendering using the Cineform codec on my machine only. I'm confident this may disappear on re-install or like but in the middle of a project I'm always loathe to do that.
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Old October 21st, 2011, 01:53 AM   #7
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Re: Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!

Ron - in response to your thread hijak! (only joking) try right clicking on each of the source files with distorted aspect ratio. Select properties and in the media tab have a look at the pixel aspect ratio. You probably need to change it.

Getting back to my plea for help in Sony randomly selecting Cineform AVIs to not upscale - anyone any ideas?
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Old October 21st, 2011, 07:35 AM   #8
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Re: Sony Vegas not upscaling Cineform AVIs to Cineform AVIs!

Thank you Stuart. I didn`t notice I was hijaking this thread.
My project (a feature 90` documentary) has more than 500 Cineform clips, so to do your sugestion doesn`t seem to make sense now.
And, as I said, when I open the same project (or play the same Cineform clips) with Vegas 9.e and 10, this bug doesn`t show up (despite with Vegas Pro 10 the project tend to crash when I try to work with it).
So for me it`s clearly a Cineform / Vegas Pro 11 bug.
Regards
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