Cineform, DiVinci Resolve and Black Magic Design Cinema Camera

[Chris Barcellos]

Is there a work flow in Cineform for the Black Magic Design Cinema Camera due to be released, and if so, how does it fit with DiVinci Resolve ?

[Dan Herrmann]

Chris, are you done with your NEX VG20 already?
I sold mine three weeks after I received it and bought the a77. Never overheats and produces a great look.

I go through cameras like that all the time. I just add a shotgun mic and some batteries, plus a shotgun mic and usually receive most of my money back.

[Chris Barcellos]

Actually, my question here has something to do with the VG20 too, as I am considering use of the BM Shuttle too with it Just trying to get a sense of how Cineform will fit into the picture. I have been a long time Cineform user, and love the dedication Cineform has had to getting tools to the independent film maker improving output.

The VG20 capabilities and shortcomings have been discussed in other threads, but having shot still cameras from the beginning with the Canon 5D mark II, the T2i, the VG20 was an attempt to get back into a form factor that would lend itself to better production. Sony's advertizing of non existent features is what led me to the camera, and though the features are not there, there is still a lot of nice stuff coming out of this camera.

Meanwhile, I am curious if there is a place Cineform sees in the work flow for the Black Magic Cinema Camera.

[Chris Barcellos]

At this point I am shooting two different Black Magic formats. First is the Shuttle 2 Hyperdeck, shot mostly with my VG20 as the camera, and the second is, as of yesterday, the Black Magic Cinema camera. For most situations I will be shooting in Black Magic's version of ProRes for each of the recording systems. As I understand that, we are talking about a 10 bit version in the Shuttle, and a 12 bit version in the Black Magic Cinema Camera.

Because I have been a Cineform user for many years, I feel comfortable with the applications, and trust the technologies that Cineform has employed. I have been trying to work with Davinci Resolve Lite as things got closer to delivery of my BM Cinema camera. Obviously, Resolve is intended to do similar things to Cineform, and I have to now seriously consider the best work flow.

1. The first thing I suspect is that my version of Studio probably isn't sufficient, and Cineform will not therefore even recognize my files for use in Cineform Studio. I do seem to be able reincode with HDLink still, but the files won't load into Studio for Conversion. I think I have the lowest paid version of Cineform/GoPro Studio, does this mean I would need to go up to next level ?

2. Second, given the obvious jump in quality of files coming out of the recorders, and their apparent ingestion without great difficulty in Vegas, should I be doing the convert thing anymore ? My first day playing with the Cinema Camera output shows a pretty seemless process can be worked by simply doing an initial grade of clips in Resolve and then moving on into Vegas for editing. I also have Premiere I can work with, to accomplish similar tasks. So question is, what are the benefits, if any, of carrying forward my Cineform work flow with these files from the Black Magic products ?

[Frank Glencairn]

If you are on PC, the latest version of Studio eats the BMC raw files just fine - makes CineformRaw out of it, so you get the benefits of CF files (speed, size) without scarifying raw benefits.

Your second option - that should also work on a Mac - is, throw your raw files into Resolve, do a first light grade - that is setting them to the BMC color space and add a 709 LUT to them and than render out as "normal" (like in non-raw) Cineform files.

Both works great, I do that all the time. Especially love the choice of different Debayering methods in CF.

Frank

[Chris Barcellos]

Frank:

Thank you for your input, and I just want to let you know I did give you method a try, and I am extremely pleased that Cinform is a great solution. Only question I have now is about getting sound in at same time.

[Frank Glencairn]

You get sound automatically, when you do the Resolve workflow.
With CineformRaw, you have to sync manual, for the moment.
Hope Cineform fixes that in the next update.

[Chris Barcellos]

Yeah, my hope to.

[Kevin Duffey]

So.. once again I am trying to figure out what is the best (or good) intermediate format to use. I own a Shuttle 2, and plan on buying the Pocket camera when it comes out. The Shuttle 2 I have set to DNxHD 220, and work on a PC (Windows, CS6). The pocket camera says it records in ProRes.. although I hope there is a DNxHD option.

Question for you guys.. what is the difference between DNxHD220 and Cineform? That is.. if I am recording uncompressed but not RAW? My Canon puts out uncompressed to my Shuttle2 which I then record in DNxHD220. I don't have the funds to buy very large SSD drives to fit full uncompressed, although I will use my SSD and Uncompressed for green screen if need be.

At any rate, if I had the funds, I'd choose RAW every time. I am wondering if the CinemaDNG RAW the Pocket camera will eventually record to is as good as Cineform and/or DNxHD220, or even better?

I am still trying to figure out my workflow. I am trying to transcode my h264 and AVCHD videos to DNxHD220, and learn how to use a DNxHD36 proxy for editing with. Hopefully the next CS version makes that process a little easier, like allowing two folders with _220 and _36 in the name, or two files with _220 and _36 on the end so that I don't have to tell CS what file to replace with the *36.

Anyway, trying to figure out if DNxHD is the way to go for intermediate/archival format, or if Cineform, of CinemaDNG Raw (when possible) is the way to go.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Frank:

Thank you for your input, and I just want to let you know I did give you method a try, and I am extremely pleased that Cinform is a great solution. Only question I have now is about getting sound in at same time.

Did I miss fixes for syncing sound in raw from the Black Magic Design raw, or are we still stuck with manual work flows ?