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Old May 8th, 2015, 01:02 PM   #1
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GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

There is an important message on the cineform website indicating that GoPro are abandoning Premium and Professional users. We have already been kicked in the teeth by Abobe with thier creative cloud ripofff. The main reason for choosing Cineform was the availability of the Premium version. The free Studio is very light weight product. Sony Vegas Pro still does support the cineform 3D files.

All this goes to strengthen my support for Open Source Software. So please would Gopro release some of the software to Open Source.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 12:27 AM   #2
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Wow... R.I.P. the Cineform we all knew and loved.

This is what happens when you get "acquired" in full by another company. To manage resources better, things have to be cut. Unfortunately, this is beyond the point of being saved.

Avid DNxHD and DNxHR are likely the last tools left for a good intermediate codec on PC.

I feel really bad for early supporters that have paid for Prospect HD/4K now.

It's unlikely they will release the core source for their software, cause it is still in use in their free product, watered down to a completely diluted state. The codec was standardized into SMPTE VC-5, but likely elements still remain closed source: https://www.smpte.org/news-events/ne...-vc-5-standard

Heck, DNxHD is VC-2 and FPGA devs (Convergent) still can't get access to the codec without asking Avid.
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Last edited by Jack Zhang; May 9th, 2015 at 02:07 AM.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 02:54 AM   #3
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Quote:
Avid DNxHD and DNxHR are likely the last tools left for a good intermediate codec on PC
Unless you are a Edius user with their Canopus hq(x) avi codec.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 03:35 AM   #4
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

But I don't think that's open to other NLEs, I'm talking about codecs open to other NLEs and are relatively stable on PC.

Don't care what anyone says, ProRes is NOT STABLE on PC.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 04:26 AM   #5
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Ok, but you said first that avid's codec where likely the only intermediate codec option on pc, it isn't.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 05:04 AM   #6
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

I said the only GOOD intermediate codec left. Cause you can go from DNxHD in acquisition directly to post on the PC without hassling with Quicktime if you use the MXF container. CineForm has never gained ground and will never gain ground now for acquisition. I have no idea if you could acquire using Canopus.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 05:48 AM   #7
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Quote:
I said the only GOOD intermediate codec left
That still doesn't make your assumption right, the edius canopus hq avi codec is a very good intermediate codec usable on a pc but it works best in Edius ofcourse for which is was designed for. Now if you would say that as a adobe user or as a sony vegas user that good intermediate codecs would be limited I could agree but you didn't say that, you said on a "pc" in general and than avid codecs are not the only "good" option available.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 06:31 AM   #8
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Guys, guys!

Noa I think what Jack was getting at is that on the PC platform Cineform could be used with just about any PC based NLE. It was and still is a very good cross program intermediate codec. I have Edius here as well and the HQ codec is great but not all windoz based video players / applications can handle it. I have used Cineform for years, mainly in the earlier years when processing power was not so readily available or at least not at reasonable prices. The codec has a lot going for it as stated here:

CineForm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As Jack says DNxHD is pretty well an industry standard, is cross platform and cross software compatible and works better better on the PC than does ProRes, especially on long form productions. DNxHD and Cineform are straight to edit acquisition formats. To lose Cineform is a shame because that basically leaves us only ProRes and DNxHD left for shoot and straight to the timeline codecs other than those that are camera manufacture specific.

Cineform was one of the few open codecs that got SMPTE ratification as a high end broadcast and cinema quality acquisition / production format. Slumdog Millionaire just to name one film that comes to mind was shot using Cineform for acquisition:

https://www.smpte.org/news-events/ne...-vc-5-standard

It's just a shame to see a good codec lost to us.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
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Old May 9th, 2015, 08:21 AM   #9
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

I know, I just wanted to point out that there is a good intermediate codec available for pc, which was suggested was not the case, I can use a hqavi codec in after effects or tmpgenc software as well so eventhough it is optimized for use in Edius it looks like to be compatible with other software. With the right software you don't need others option to be able to edit whatever codec.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 10:15 AM   #10
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Young View Post

It's just a shame to see a good codec lost to us.
My point exactly, and ProRes is not PC friendly at all.

I can believe your word that Canopus can be worked into other NLEs with elbow grease, but you have to think about simplicity in a wide deployment, like a post house. DNxHD has less steps to get it working with a wide variety of PC NLEs and lots of people have worked with said setup, and specific configurations are shared more with DNxHD setups, due to more editors using that kind of a setup.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 01:12 PM   #11
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

The CineForm codec is not going away:
- There are 100X more seats of GoPro CineForm now than there was 4 years ago.
- CineForm has been standardized as SMPTE VC-5 (and GoPro is continuing this support.) see https://www.smpte.org/news-events/ne...-vc-5-standard
- CineForm 444(4) is now included in Adobe CC and the completely free GoPro Studio (on Windows and soon Mac (currently 422)). see
- CineForm is actively being updated and continues for the foreseeable future. I've been working on some very cool stuff that requires CineForm.

What is not being updated are the transcoding tools, basically now that GoPro CineForm codec is effectively free, use can you many third party tools. I acknowledge that there are still some feature gaps between FirstLight's Active Metadata support and GoPro Studio's, and we be will looking into that.

The future of the CineForm codec is way stronger now that it isn't tied to a $300 per seat license, and is a key component in GoPro's future.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 05:44 PM   #12
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Zhang View Post
I feel really bad for early supporters that have paid for Prospect HD/4K now.
This part is funny. Prospect HD/4K was designed for Premere Pro 2.0 and worked based with CS3 (does everryone remember having to avoid CS4?), which was released in 2007. In you haven't got your money worth in 8 years, I would suggest another line of business. I would also imagine that Prospect and CS3 still work great together today. ;)

If you are really thinking early supporters, extra an thank you goes to Aspect HD customers using Premiere (not Pro) 6.5 in 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Zhang View Post
The codec was standardized into SMPTE VC-5, but likely elements still remain closed source:
The SMPTE VC-5 package comes with reference source code to build a encoder and decoder pair.
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Old May 9th, 2015, 09:11 PM   #13
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Newman View Post
The future of the CineForm codec is way stronger now that it isn't tied to a $300 per seat license, and is a key component in GoPro's future.
David I am glad to hear this as will be many other editors who have to work across a broad spectrum of platforms and codecs.

With regards to ongoing developments could you get your dev team to look into an issue that has raised it head for a number of GoPro Studio users. There have been numerous postings around the web and how I know this is that I was one of many who suddenly encountered an unexpected issue. The issue was an error dialogue cropping up when opening up other software after uninstalling GoPro Studio. The error dialogue is:

"Error at loading ippSP library" - "No DLLs were found in the Waterfall procedure"

This error is caused because Gopro Studio version 121, plus I have heard other versions, removes

'ippsw7-6.1.dll'

when you uninstall GoPro Studio.

Naughty. Not a nice uninstall at all! No way should an uninstall of GPS remove ippsw7-6.1.dll from the windoz System 32 or SysWOW64 folders.

In my case it was GPS v121. This was a real PIA and took a while to chase down and rectify.

Thanks in advance and yes thanks again for the positive heads up on Cineform.

EDIT: BTW would GoPro ever consider doing what Avid have done with their DNxHD codec? Making it FREELY available for download as a configurable codec pack, both encoder and decoder, for use on both PC and Mac without having to install GoPro software packages.

Avid were very forward thinking in doing this... or were they pushed into this by their cross platform users. The latter I think but whatever it has made the DNxHD codec a very popular and widely accepted cross platform codec family. It might behoove GoPro to take a look at doing something similar. Deliver your codecs in your own software that needs to be purchased but look at the wider distribution and acceptance of the Cineform codec as a download pack for zero cost or at least a smaller nominal purchase price for industry professionals who wish to use it. For GoPro it would raise its profile and credibility in the production business greatly with little material cost to GoPro's bottom line which has exploded over the last year or so. Just a thought.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Last edited by Christopher Young; May 9th, 2015 at 09:35 PM. Reason: Addititional comments
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Old May 9th, 2015, 09:14 PM   #14
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Newman View Post
The SMPTE VC-5 package comes with reference source code to build a encoder and decoder pair.
Licensing rules/restrictions?

For example, DNxHD (also SMPTE standard) may be a free DL for Quicktime MOV from Avid but is restricted for non commercial use. Avid wants money to be included in a product AFAIK. Same for Cineform?

Can someone put Cineform in Libavcodec (ffmpeg universe).
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Old May 9th, 2015, 11:20 PM   #15
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Re: GoPro abandons Premium and Professional users

Norman ~

To the best of my knowledge the Avid Codecs LE package has no restrictions at all on its use. The Avid Codecs pack PE on the other hand may have restrictions due to it containing the Avid MPEG2 IMX codec that may have licensing restrictions.

LE pack
Avid Codecs LE v2.5

PE pack
Avid Codecs 2.3.7 Download

if you are a manufacturer of hardware or software that utilizes Avid technology then yes there are definite licensing requirements to be met.

Avid | Avid DNxHR and DNxHD Codec Licensees

I know of no network having to enter any agreement or pay for the professional use of any Avid codecs used outside of proprietary Avid software such as Composer.

For developers of Avid codecs it is free to use, including the new DVxHR codec, until such time as you want to go commercial with it.

Well I trust that is still the case otherwise my editing life is built on a lie! Shock, horror! :))

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
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