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Old December 18th, 2005, 11:05 PM   #1
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CFHD prospect export video/audio sync issue

Okay, I have spent weeks working on my darn christmas video trying to integrate DV and HDV. Well, gave up on that, and have now made DV sections and HDV sections. I exported the HDV stuff via CFHD to a 720x480, 1.2 NTSC WS avi. So, I am sitting down with my family reviewing the master just to make sure it all looks okay. Now, I am waiting some of this converted video and I can see lip sync issues. NO, not another issue. :o(
So, I go back to my master Prospect project and play the clips, everything is in sync. But, when I play the CFHD avi output file, there is a lip sync issue. So, I am doing another output just for the heck of it, but since this will take a few hours, and I will be in bed, I thought I would start the question. What have I done wrong now? :o(

Thanks, guess I am not going to make christmas.

Dave
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Old December 18th, 2005, 11:23 PM   #2
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If you source project is in sync, sounds like dift in your media player, which may mean you output is fine. This shouldn't be an issue for creating DVD (which will look the sound to the picture) if you project is setup correctly. Gather you aren't mixing 30 with 29.97, or other very close but no quite frame rates.
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Old December 19th, 2005, 08:01 AM   #3
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David, there has to be an issue.

Here is some more data. I redid the CFHD export, and again, the avi has sync issues. Now, the export has a lot of clips in it. At the beginning of the exported avi, there is no lip sync. But as it goes alone through the clips, it gets worse and worse.

Now, another data point. I just relooked at the DVD I made when I had all the clips, both DV and HDV in my one entire 1920x1080 project. (I gave up on this project when the final had the DV all messed up) I made the DVD from this timeline by using Procoder to export the mv2 file. Its audio sync is perfect.

So, the issue is when I use CFHD to export from the 1920x1080 time line to a 720x480 avi.

So, now what?

Dave
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Old December 19th, 2005, 09:35 AM   #4
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Some more data for what its worth.
In this CFHD output, there are two types of files in the timeline. One are the Z1 standard files which were upconverted to the 1920x1080 10 bit. I also have in the timeline some Ultra files. The output of ultra is set on 1920x1080 but they are only 8 bits.

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Old December 19th, 2005, 11:49 AM   #5
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Please try my DVD suggestion to confirm whether you have a sync issue or not. With many thousands of users now I'm not thinking that there is a bug, so I'm try to determine the miss-step. Did you confirm a 29.97 vs 30 fps project setting?
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Old December 19th, 2005, 12:07 PM   #6
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I have gone through and made sure everything is 29.97. Ultra does not have an option for 30. The project setting says 29.97.

Not sure what your DVD suggestion is. I found this by playing my finished DVD in my sony DVD player which showed lip sync. Playing a completed DVD where I did not usee CFHD, but when straight out with ProCoder, in the same DVD player, there is no lip sync. The only time I am seeing lip sync is after I export with CFHD to 720x480 which I would have to look again, but I assume there is no option to change from 29.97 to 30.

So, how many folks are making a 1920x1080 timeline and exporting with cfhd to 720x480 to make a DVD? Anyone out there do this yet?

Again, I would love to say I screwed a setting up, but this one is weird. It works with procoder out of the 1920x1080 timeline, but does not after using CFHD export. (I can not use this project since it messed the DV up)

So, not sure what you mean by media player. I found the issue wtih my sony DVD player. My windows media player is seeing the same lip sync issue on the computer.

So, not sure what exactly your dvd suggestion is, other than what I think I tried already, but, maybe I misread it.

Is there anyplace else I need to verify 29.97?

Again, thanks for the help.

Dave
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Old December 19th, 2005, 12:18 PM   #7
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Unfortunately is very hard to test remotely what up, however the resolution of your source is not the issue. If 1920x1080 works in procoder use that, you have a path that you have succeed with before so go for it. The point being "if something gets in your way turn", we learn why later. Also work through support as they may have addice you.

Note: is the reimported 720x480 CFHD AVI in sync or out of sync with Premiere (check the waveform)?
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Old December 19th, 2005, 12:30 PM   #8
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Yes, I may have a way for the nth time to get this to work with a kludge. But, I just spent another 3 days getting the cfdh process loaded.

So now, until I can figure out what is going on, I could go and take each HDV section and use procoder to output seperate elementary streams. Then I get stuck with 8 streams for reel dvd. But if this works for now, sure better than nothing.

Man, is everyone having as much fun with getting HDV to work as me?

How do I do this?

Note: is the reimported 720x480 CFHD AVI in sync or out of sync with Premiere (check the waveform)?

Now, I assume that I take the avi file, put it into a new 720x480 project, and expand the timeline. Now, I am pretty sure I checked this in premiere last night and it was out of sync on the premiere timeline via what I heard and watched the video with my eyes and ears. Now, I did not look at the "waveform" if this means looking at the audio file and looking at the video vs audio. I can look at that tonight. But, what if this visual is out of sync.
Then what to try?

Now, all I can say, is I am no dummy with this stuff. So, for the non nerd, who knows what they do.

Dave
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Old December 19th, 2005, 02:01 PM   #9
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There are still many options available to you, so to help debug the issue. You have always do a 720x480 SD uncompressed or DV export, test for sync again. Anything to narrow down where the sync is messing up, after all the sync is correct on the timeline so we know something is amiss. This is will be completely logical once you find it.
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Old December 19th, 2005, 02:20 PM   #10
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Thad asked me to import the chip back into original project and see what happens. Will do this tonight.

I am also going to cut down the clips to try and get a process that does it, assuming I do not find a setting I missed. I want to try an ULTRA clip all by itself and see what it does.

So debugging time continues! I am stubborn, I want to find the work flow that works with minimum steps.

Again, will let you know what I find tonight.

Dave
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Old December 19th, 2005, 06:56 PM   #11
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David, what exactly am I trying to do with this suggestion?

"Note: is the reimported 720x480 CFHD AVI in sync or out of sync with Premiere (check the waveform)?"

How do I do this?

Dave
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Old December 19th, 2005, 07:10 PM   #12
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David, just guessing what you are asking me to do, I put the CFHD file in the second track of the original HD project. Now, I still do not know what waveform to try and what to look for. I played with them, but, over my head at the moment.

But, if is some interesting data. I expanded the audio tracks of both the original and CFHD, and they sure look the same. But, what is interesting, is on the CFHD clip, the audio towards the end is AHEAD of the video for sync.
Does this help at all? What else can I do get you data? I was going to try and do a DV AVI output of the same 40 minute clip area to compare all three.
It justs take 1.5 hours, so, only want to start this why I have run out of ideas.

Dave
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Old December 19th, 2005, 09:08 PM   #13
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Man, this stuff takes so long to try a little change

Dave

Last edited by Dave Campbell; December 19th, 2005 at 11:29 PM.
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Old December 20th, 2005, 08:00 AM   #14
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Boy do I love s/w.

So, I found last night that the clip I was having issues with was 17 frames longer than it should have been. But when I redid it, it came out correct the second time in length. I got it to play correctly by itself, but not in my project. So, I thought maybe Ppro has preview files messed up. I then deleted all the audio and video preview files, and started from scratch the audio conform, and then the project rendering, which happened while I was sleeping.

So, I just looked at the project and guess what, it looks like it is working correctly now.

So, who knows what chain of events caused this end result, but, I think its now working. I will try to complete the DVD tonight, watch and verify.

So, what does this mean? Welcome to s/w!

So David, thanks for the support again. I still would love to reproduce the process that made the extra 17 frames, (as an engineer I do not like to leave stuff I find that I do not expect, but in this case, I will leave to the s/w god!!), but who cares.

So, what did I learn about this? S/W is S/W.

Thanks David again. :o) Cineform is the greatest!!

Dave
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Old December 20th, 2005, 10:26 AM   #15
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I glad things have finally worked out. We will still pursue the cause here so that is won't happen again, but an intermittent problem is the worst to find.
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