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Old March 9th, 2006, 06:58 PM   #1
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Cineform ASPECT HD worth it?

i was considering purchasing this, was after feed back im using sony's
z1P and mainly capture in 50i, im after an overall film look for doco's.
At times i have up to 12 Video tracks but mainly 4. Id love to be able
to convert to 24p

worth me purchasing do you think.

edit - was thinking of using magic bullet as well
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Old March 10th, 2006, 03:42 AM   #2
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Hi Ben,

Yes, if you plan on using a Z1 then AspectHD is definately the way to go, even with PPro2.0. I have the FX1 and HC1 and although editing HD can be a little quirky AspectHD works like a champ and Cineform's support is very good.

Definately check it out. Where in Victoria are you? I'm from Geelong.

PS. - using Magic Bullet with DV was painful, I can't imagine using it in HD.
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Old March 11th, 2006, 09:33 PM   #3
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thanks for the info, think ill use the evaluation version of magic bullet
to see how it goes, think i will purchase aspecthd though

Sunbuy,Geelong not a bad place :), my girlfriend lives there so im down there
as much as possible
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Old March 12th, 2006, 01:41 AM   #4
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ok well i spent the afternoon with the trial, and so far im not really
impressed that much, i may be doing something wrong but standard
capture seems better.

ie, capture with the 24p and get artifacts / coppy, 25p artifacts, best format i found was using the 50i but still found the PP2 HDV capture better.

is there something im missing?
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Old March 12th, 2006, 08:25 AM   #5
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Aspect HD is NOT worth it, BUT until PCs are much faster, native HDV editing is going to be too slow and Cineform has us by the ...

Use HDLink to capture only the raw video and then batch-convert and scene-detect, etc. It's the only way I've been able to get video clips without artifacts on a 3.0 GHz PC with HT and a dedicated video drive.

Wayne
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Old March 12th, 2006, 08:39 AM   #6
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Wayne... what are you using for a video drive?

Aspect works like a dream on my system. Everything was a bit sluggish when I was using a Firewire 800 external drive. Then after moving to an internal SATA RAID 0 configuration, everything is flawless. Scrubbing, capture, color-correction.... snappy and responsive.

I would suggest that poor performance with Aspect is due to a bottleneck elsewhere.
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Old March 12th, 2006, 09:36 AM   #7
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I think you'll find that even as PC's get much faster editing HDV natively is still a bad idea. Why use CPU resources just to play the video on top of rendering any effects, transitions etc..

The price/performance of hard drives is continually improving so for me at least, managing I/O to free up the CPU to do other things besides play back the video stream makes more sense. I also like the concept of an intermediate codec for post production; it may allow more control over developing a particular look.

So although Cineform may not have it exactly right they are headed in the right direction and combined with the level of integration between applications that Adobe is beginning to offer I can easily see how I can create a look that differentiates my work and is more scaleable providing an economy of scale that we haven't seen in the video industry in a very long time.

So although its Cineform today it might be some other [larger] company in the future that develops this concept more fully. But I believe that an investment in AspectHD is worth it. I have found there support to be very responsive and there product pretty much does all that they say it will. Also there's a lot more to editing HD than capturing, have you had the opportunity to compare native HDV and AspectHD editing a similar/same project?

I haven't had any artifacts, I'm not saying they don't exist, I just haven't experienced them. My experience seems to be more like what Marty described. Ben if your having any problems or questions regarding performance I'm happy to help all that I can but I recommend opening a trouble ticket with Cineform and I'm sure they will answer you directly.

Finally, sorry for the diatribe, when it comes to editing HD(V) be patient. Personally I don’t think any of the solutions offered today work very well, certainly not as well as they should. So it seems to be choice of the lesser of three or four evils. The nice thing about the AspectHD trial is that it doesn’t cost you anything for thirty days to compare the two styles of editing. When I had to make a choice there really wasn’t that much of a choice to make – none of the NLE’s edited natively.

It has been a long six months. But last night a project I was working on was projected at an event and:

AspectHD - $500
Workstation $5,000
The opportunity to view your HD work through the eyes of your customer - PRICELESS
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Old March 12th, 2006, 09:49 AM   #8
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How about a Specific Question or a Positive Post?

Cineform support is about the best I have ever seen. Cineform does not, as you say, have you "by the ...!" They provide a product that you are free to buy or not buy. They fill a gap that few others do and provide a means of editing our HD footage.

Maybe formats will change and maybe computers will eliminate the need for their software, but until then, they are providing us a tool at a reasonable price in order for them to operate a viable business.

In the future, perhaps not too distant even, they may have to totally change their business profile, to accommodate change in the industry, or even go out of business. But, I think with the great people they have there, and the great service they provide, they will survive and thrive, I hope so anyway!

For now, how about presenting any problems you have to those of us on this forum, or to Cineform, and see if they can be addressed in a meaningful way. Certainly, waiting for Microsoft to respond is not "real world!" There is absolutely nothing to be gained by bashing a company and everything to be gain by seeking valuable information and sharing it with others.

JMHO

Mike
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Old March 12th, 2006, 12:44 PM   #9
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With one exception, my trouble tickets to Cineform have been marked resolved without solving any problems. I believe I responded to some posts with workarounds that I took days to discover. Every problem I've complained about has been experienced by others. Only the artifacts bug introduced in 4.0 has been fixed.
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Old March 12th, 2006, 01:21 PM   #10
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The people from Cineform read thru this forum on a daily basis, and I'm sure they would be glad to help you, should you actually post a question or a request for help. Try it!

There are also many others on the forum who use their products on a daily basis and have a lot of valuable information to give to you, should you ask for it.

I know my way around computers and programs pretty well, as I started with a Commodore, but I am certainly no expert. I have to admit that in all of my calls to companies for help, (HP, Adobe, Cineform, Linxsys, Sony, JVC and on and on), 90-95% of the time it was my error, mistake, or ignorance. I quit assuming long ago that all problems were the fault of others, and it is an easier life then!

If there is something we can perhaps assist you with please let us know. Please try to stay as positive as you can. I don't mean to put you down at all, we just want to help you solve your problems. Good luck,

Mike
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Old March 12th, 2006, 04:01 PM   #11
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DVinfo is about the tools and techniques, not about each other. Let's keep it friendly, folks.
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Old March 14th, 2006, 01:01 PM   #12
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Have you tried already on another computer? In most cases it is the combination of software packages and installs over installs which make a software tool suddenly to go wrong.

Cineform is one of the companies which does react quick to bugs and add pretty fast new cameras which are introduced into this new market. That is the reason why I have chosen to buy their plug-in. Because it works with excellent quality and I know many updates will come to improve it and to catch up with the editing tools which are adapting also constantly.

HDV is cutting edge at the moment. Even for the windows OS system which thinks sometimes the format is 'alien' on some computers. If you expect it is proven technology, then you have to roll back and take DV instead sort of speaking. All the software/hardware DV tools are available for years. There you can choose and pick what's best for you.

Peace.
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Old March 20th, 2006, 05:18 PM   #13
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im using the z1P with a fairly solid workstation, my only thing is quality i cannont seem to get something that is without any artifacts, btw its a
clean install and have a raid 0 setup.

Is there something im doing wrong, wat are the best settings for a
50i capture from the z1p?
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Old March 20th, 2006, 05:32 PM   #14
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If your system is fast but glitches occur, that can lead to a suspect FireWire card. Please contact support and file a trouble ticket, as this should be solvable.
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Old March 20th, 2006, 07:47 PM   #15
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capture is straight through to an asus motherboard built in firewire.
i dont however have this trouble with the native capture
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