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Old August 24th, 2006, 10:22 PM   #1
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In Camera Direct To Cineform Capture

Is an in camera direct to Cineform capture planned for any cameras other than the SI 1080? Especially in the XH-A1, HD110, HVX100 class of cameras. Sort of a dream come true...

For reference, Canon adds $3k for HD-SDI output and Genlock on the A1.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 10:47 PM   #2
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We already have direct capture for all those cameras -- all you need is Prospect HD Ingest and a HDSDI with analog I/O (for non-HDSDI cameras.) So you can almost upgrade your PC for the $3K difference, what will get a real-time 10-bit editing solution at the same time.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 11:00 PM   #3
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:)

Yes, but without the PC, direct to a harddrive on the camera, maybe running on batteries. With the SI1920, don't you bypass some in camera processing?
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Old August 24th, 2006, 11:16 PM   #4
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You should purchase an SI camera is your want to bypass in camera processing. All the other cameras will deliver preprocessed component video -- which unfortunately requires more CPU to encode than encoding the RAW data directly of the head of the SI camera. For capturing the other cameras you will need a HDSDI/component card, for capture the SI Camera you need a GigE port, guess which is smaller and cheaper. So SI camera will be the more flexible choice for direct capture.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 11:25 PM   #5
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If it was only half the size (and half the price)!

Question: it seems from the docs that the Cineform RAW capture needs a Bayer filter single sensor. If that is true, what prevents it from working in a 3 CCD system.

P.S.
Not that I'm in love with 3 CCD systems. The Canon still cameras have been using a CMOS sensor for years.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 11:44 PM   #6
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Half the size???? The SI camera head we use was only about 2" square, can't get much smaller than that (for course it get bigger with lens and battery etc.) And price, is worth every penny (and many more.)

CineForm RAW could be applied to a 3 chip camera, but no one makes a camera that always direct CCD access -- and we not in the business of hack cameras, a.k.a Andromeda. Anyway the single chip approach is better for large sensor designs.
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Old August 25th, 2006, 12:20 AM   #7
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An XH-A1, HVX200, HVR-Z1 form factor. Not saying the SI1920 isn't great...it will end up over $20k and hard to get.

I was thinking $8-12k for a complete camera: lens, sensor, processing, recording, battery. The cameras listed are $4000-5500, however P2 storage would push the HVX200 to $10k. A system that had the option of or used 35mm SLR lenses could bring the price point down.
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Old August 25th, 2006, 12:45 AM   #8
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The SI mini camera is around $12k including Prospect HD. All you need is a laptop to capture to.
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Old August 25th, 2006, 09:19 PM   #9
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Would that connect to the laptop with Ethernet? Firewire? USB?

How fast a laptop would be needed?

Wouldn't the harddisk storage be less expense than a laptop?

Two camera related questions: 1) is the F-mount for Nikon 35mm SLR lenses?; 2) is the unit now a single black box or a small black box on top of a bigger grey box as some of the earlier photos on your blog showed? It looked like the individual boxes worked better with that shoulder mount.

Thanks,

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Old August 26th, 2006, 11:52 AM   #10
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You are understandably confused as there are two versions of the camera, one is a shoulder mounted, battery operated unit that records to 2.5" USB hot swappable drives, the other is a tiny gigE tethered camera head (this is what I have used.) They both cameras feature the same sensor, same lens options, and run the same software, only the camera head runs the software on the gigE computer that you provide (preferrably a new 2.33Ghz Merom Core 2 Duo laptop, if you want to do the 72p mode.)
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Old August 26th, 2006, 01:00 PM   #11
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The SI site only talks about one unit, pictured here: http://www.siliconimaging.com/Digita...DVR_photo1.jpg. Numbers of $12.5k and $20k have been mentioned, but never described whats in the box. Company representatives don't show up on the SI forum here or their own community.

If a unit with an 'F' mount for Nikon SLR lenses, battery mount, hot swappable disk drive and live ethernet output was $12.5k, that would be attractive. Their FAQ says "The pricing for a camera head system, which includes the SI-1920HD-GE camera head, a copy of Prospect HD Edit, Premiere Pro 2.0, a Arri-base-plate adapter, and two Fujinon c-mount lenses will retail for $12,500." They are including 2 lenses for $12.5k but no battery interface or recording? If the buyer allready had Premiere Pro and Prospect HD, would it be less expensive?

It seems like a near ideal (it could be smaller...H1 or HD100 size) solution for no much more than an H1 or HD200/250. I just wish more information was available. Depending on specifics, it is either a great alternative or a little too expensive.
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Old August 26th, 2006, 01:22 PM   #12
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Pictured is the $20K solution. I also wish the SI guys would spend some time moderating the forum (I just direct everyone to DVInfo.net) but they have been very busy preparing their camaras for production. More information will come when the finally packaging is completed. As for pulling software features of a lower price, the answer is very unlikely (much of the pricing is for OEM bunded deals -- they get software much cheaper becuase it ships with every camera.) Although existing Prospect HD may get a break, but we all need to wait and see for the final package annoucements.
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Old August 26th, 2006, 04:04 PM   #13
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At $20k, it is an alternative to an HD250 or H1 with HD-SDI capture, but 3-4x the price of an A1, HD110, or HVX200 with conversion from the native HDV or DVCProHD format.

What could they leave off in a $12.5k version? It still needs a monitor and power. The conversion to Cineform has to be done in the unit with the sensor, doesn't it. So recording the Cineform data can't be that expensive?

I'm confused. I guess we just have to wait until it actually ships. If demand is great, it may never have lower cost options.
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Old August 26th, 2006, 04:38 PM   #14
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The large sensor format puts it is a different category than all those cameras. Wait until the products are released then it will all be clearer.
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Old August 26th, 2006, 08:06 PM   #15
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The large sensor is great. However, price and to a lesser extent package are also important. Depending on what's in the box, the price may be close. The large sensor, high quality capture, big screen all adding to some, managable price premium. However, if it is a 15#, $25k package it becomes a good rental...if available...to me at least. Less espensive than an SDX-900 though.

I was waiting until the end of the year to pull the trigger anyway...until the new Canons, JVC, and maybe unannounced Panasonics are available.

Thanks,

David
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