Reducing loss of video quality - 1st and 2nd generation at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > CineForm Software Showcase

CineForm Software Showcase
Cross platform digital intermediates for independent filmmakers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 21st, 2007, 08:23 PM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 10
Reducing loss of video quality - 1st and 2nd generation

When converting files from .m2t to .avi (Cineform), is it better to use HDLink (v3.02) convert or Sony Vegas (v7.0e) render? I don't care about the time taken, I just want to minimise the 1st generation loss of video quality.

On a similar note, can I use a Cineform tool to reduce my 2nd generation loss of video quality, or is Sony Vegas render my only option?

Here's what I'm doing
1. HDVSplit to importing my .m2t files
2. NEO HDV HDLink to convert .m2t to .avi (1st generation loss)
3. Sony Vegas to edit .avi files
4. Sony Vegas to render a big edited .avi file for archive (2nd generation loss)
Terry McGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2007, 08:36 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Patterson La.
Posts: 207
why not use the HDlink to convert to Cineform from the start?
Salah Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2007, 09:29 PM   #3
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 10
I found the answer to my first question ... to minimise the 1st generation loss, I should use HDLink convert (with Quality = High or Film Scan) not Sony Vegas render. This is because Sony Vegas 7 only has access to Cineforms "Medium" quality setting, due to Sony's restricted license.

Can anyone tell me if I can reduce my 2nd generation loss of video quality? Or am I stuck with Sony Vegas render, which only has access to Cineforms "Medium" quality setting?
Terry McGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2007, 09:48 PM   #4
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,095
If you purchase NEO the Sony license is upgraded to support all the quality levels. Also if you use the Samrt rendering option in HDLink, unchanged segments will be completely lossless in Vegas.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2007, 01:02 AM   #5
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 10
Smart rendering sounds good. But what's a segment?
Terry McGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2007, 08:35 AM   #6
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,095
A segment is a range of frames between edit events. Cut points mark segment boundaries, so transition etc.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #7
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 10
Can someone please confirm if the below solution is a better option for me. 1. HDVSplit to importing my .m2t files (one file per segment)
2. Sony Vegas and Vasst GearShift on the .mt2 files to create DV (or Cineform) proxies
3. Sony Vegas to edit the DV proxies
4. When ready to render, Vasst GearShift to exchange the DV proxies for the .m2t files
5. Sony Vegas to render project as MPEG-2 for Blu Ray (1st generation loss)
6. Sony Vegas to render project as a big edited Cineform .avi file for archive (1st generation loss)

This solution appears to allow me to get my edited HDV footage into Blu Ray, with just 1 generation of loss. Am I missing something?

It appears my original solution would only be better if:
- I was doing multiple (eg 10) generations of editing, as Cineform editing is near lossless, but .m2t editing isn't
- I was editing only a few (not all) segments, as Cineform Smart Rendering does not re-render the unedited segments, whereas native .m2t editing would.
Terry McGregor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2007, 06:22 AM   #8
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
even if you use cineform, if you perform any edits(cuts, transitions, special FX, color adjustments, etc) within Vegas, the entire segment will be re-rendered, causing a generational loss. I do all my cuts within womble's smart renderere, then back into vegas.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2007, 07:44 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Clermont, FL.
Posts: 941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ravens View Post
even if you use cineform, if you perform any edits(cuts, transitions, special FX, color adjustments, etc) within Vegas, the entire segment will be re-rendered, causing a generational loss. I do all my cuts within womble's smart renderere, then back into vegas.

That doesn't quite make sense. Anything that is going to make Vegas rerender Cineform (transitions, color adjustment, etc.) is going to make Womble rerender the mpeg as well. On top of that, I'd take the tenth generation of Cineform over the second generation of mpeg (after a non-smartrender that is).

Last edited by Laurence Kingston; July 1st, 2007 at 07:45 PM. Reason: redundant words
Laurence Kingston is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > CineForm Software Showcase

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:31 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network