Over/under crank with the Flash/Nano

Dan Keaton · October 23rd, 2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Job

...Hi Dan: If I understood your earlier posts correctly, I would need a camera capable of 60P for any overcrank.

I was just suggesting that one can create some wonderful slow-motion footage in post.

Over and under-cranking will be a part of the Flash XDR and the nanoFlash.

From a policy point of view, features will be added to both units equally, unless there is a technical reason why we can't. Thus they both benefit from our development.

In fact, we use the same code base for both products.

Steve Phillipps · October 23rd, 2009, 02:43 PM

Mark, I get the feeling that the problem with "line doubling" to take 60i material and make it 60P in the XDR would be that it takes time to do it, and there is no way the processor could do 60 nicely inteprolated lines every second - I don't know what the rendering time would be in Twixtor etc. but I doubt that it's realtime.
Aaron, I'm sure there can be good reults made from Twixtor and other de-interlacers, but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it won't be anywhere near as good as proper slow motion (ie 60P).
At present you can do great slomo with the Nano and XDR by shooting 60P and conforming it in Cinema Tools, but when proper overcrank is available I think a lot of people will be very happy.
Steve

Mark Job · October 23rd, 2009, 08:55 PM

Hi Steve:
Yes. I think you are probably right about the line doubling method performed in hardware via XDR. Can you recommend a good camera which can do a proper p60 @ 1920 x 1080 full rater HD ?

Rafael Amador · October 23rd, 2009, 09:23 PM

I think that RED does 1080p50/60.
rafael

Mark Job · October 23rd, 2009, 09:25 PM

Hi Rafael:
At this point the red is out of my price range. Maybe to rent on one day ?

Aaron Newsome · October 23rd, 2009, 09:26 PM

You would be doing your RED camera a disservice if you recorded the non-REDCODE data anyway. Yes it does high frame rates, but it also has a recorder to record the high frame rates. You might use the the CD box for proxies (which really aren't necessary though).

Steve Phillipps · October 24th, 2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafael Amador

I think that RED does 1080p50/60.
rafael

It theoretically does 1080P/120, but only in 2k mode where after de-bayering the resolution and image quality are likely to be a bit suspect. Haven't seen it for myself though.
Steve

Rafael Amador · October 24th, 2009, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Job

Hi Rafael:
At this point the red is out of my price range. Maybe to rent on one day ?

Hi Mark,
Standard cameras won't offer 1080p60 because is not any standard.
Capture and play would be a problem too.
rafael

After writing this I saw the the KONA 3 can record 1080p60.

Paul Cronin · October 24th, 2009, 07:08 AM

Mark I can save you the time with renting the Red. I owned a Red this past spring just for the 2K 120fps and was very disappointed. At 2K the camera is only using 1/2 of the sensor and the picture quality was not up to the EX1 and the XDR that I owned at the same time. I sold the Red very unhappy in the product.

Mark Job · October 24th, 2009, 08:18 AM

Hi Paul:
Wow ! I'm really surprised to read this sort of feedback about a RED product ! To state a 2K camera didn't look as good as the XDR with a Sony EX-1 is also interesting. Do you think your RED camera was busted ?

Paul Cronin · October 24th, 2009, 09:21 AM

No there was nothing wrong with the Red camera. At full 35mm it was very nice but that was not why I purchased the camera. 1/2 of one CMOS sensor in the Red at 2k is not up to EX with XDR or Nano from the two weeks of test I did in my studio and outside.

Believe me I was not happy taking the loss I took when I sold the camera. I was warned by knowledgeable people on this site and the Red site, but I had to learn for myself. Well lesson learned and you should rent a Red you might find out different then me but I would be surprised.

Mark Job · October 24th, 2009, 10:20 AM

Hi Paul:
Which model of Red camera are we talking about here ?

Steve Phillipps · October 24th, 2009, 10:39 AM

There is only 1 RED at present, the RED One. The others are very much in dreamspace still!
I have heard the same thing about 2k from the RED. Apparently 3k looks OK though, going up to 60fps or so.
Steve

Mark Job · October 24th, 2009, 11:35 AM

Hi Steve:
I went to the RED website and they show all these different kind of camera kits - heads-packs. Are you saying this stuff actually isn't available yet ?

Steve Phillipps · October 24th, 2009, 12:41 PM

Yep! The pictures look amazing don't they? But that's all they are.
Steve

October 23rd, 2009, 09:25 PM	#50
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	Red Camera 1080 @ 60p Hi Rafael: At this point the red is out of my price range. Maybe to rent on one day ?

October 24th, 2009, 07:08 AM	#54
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Mark I can save you the time with renting the Red. I owned a Red this past spring just for the 2K 120fps and was very disappointed. At 2K the camera is only using 1/2 of the sensor and the picture quality was not up to the EX1 and the XDR that I owned at the same time. I sold the Red very unhappy in the product. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 24th, 2009, 08:18 AM	#55
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	Not Good Red Hi Paul: Wow ! I'm really surprised to read this sort of feedback about a RED product ! To state a 2K camera didn't look as good as the XDR with a Sony EX-1 is also interesting. Do you think your RED camera was busted ?

October 24th, 2009, 09:21 AM	#56
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	No there was nothing wrong with the Red camera. At full 35mm it was very nice but that was not why I purchased the camera. 1/2 of one CMOS sensor in the Red at 2k is not up to EX with XDR or Nano from the two weeks of test I did in my studio and outside. Believe me I was not happy taking the loss I took when I sold the camera. I was warned by knowledgeable people on this site and the Red site, but I had to learn for myself. Well lesson learned and you should rent a Red you might find out different then me but I would be surprised. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

October 24th, 2009, 10:20 AM	#57
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	Which RED is Better off Dead ? Hi Paul: Which model of Red camera are we talking about here ?

October 23rd, 2009, 02:43 PM	#47
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Mark, I get the feeling that the problem with "line doubling" to take 60i material and make it 60P in the XDR would be that it takes time to do it, and there is no way the processor could do 60 nicely inteprolated lines every second - I don't know what the rendering time would be in Twixtor etc. but I doubt that it's realtime. Aaron, I'm sure there can be good reults made from Twixtor and other de-interlacers, but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it won't be anywhere near as good as proper slow motion (ie 60P). At present you can do great slomo with the Nano and XDR by shooting 60P and conforming it in Cinema Tools, but when proper overcrank is available I think a lot of people will be very happy. Steve

October 23rd, 2009, 08:55 PM	#48
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	Hi Steve: Yes. I think you are probably right about the line doubling method performed in hardware via XDR. Can you recommend a good camera which can do a proper p60 @ 1920 x 1080 full rater HD ?

October 23rd, 2009, 09:23 PM	#49
Rafael Amador Major Player Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vientiane (Lao PDR) Posts: 349	I think that RED does 1080p50/60. rafael

October 23rd, 2009, 09:26 PM	#51
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	You would be doing your RED camera a disservice if you recorded the non-REDCODE data anyway. Yes it does high frame rates, but it also has a recorder to record the high frame rates. You might use the the CD box for proxies (which really aren't necessary though).

October 24th, 2009, 10:39 AM	#58
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	There is only 1 RED at present, the RED One. The others are very much in dreamspace still! I have heard the same thing about 2k from the RED. Apparently 3k looks OK though, going up to 60fps or so. Steve

October 24th, 2009, 11:35 AM	#59
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	RED Vaporware ? Hi Steve: I went to the RED website and they show all these different kind of camera kits - heads-packs. Are you saying this stuff actually isn't available yet ?

October 24th, 2009, 12:41 PM	#60
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Yep! The pictures look amazing don't they? But that's all they are. Steve