TC on the XDR at DVinfo.net

Chris Atebr · October 22nd, 2009, 02:22 PM

I know this is not the first time I've posted this request but I'm beginning to get really frustrated.

Why is is that very clever stuff (and frankly, niche facilities) like time lapse and pre buffering are given priority over VT basics like the ability to jam sync with other cameras?
I've worked in TV for over 22 years and I can't remember recorders not having a TC in/out facility and been able to regen from an external TC once the feed is removed.

As an XDR owner, it does rather feel like there was such a rush to get the Nano released, important basics functions on the xdr were pushed to one side.

Please, please, please can we get some idea of when this function will be available?

Mike Schell · October 22nd, 2009, 04:28 PM

Hi Chris-
JAM Sync in the nano/XDR is planned in the next firmware release. We already have it working in the lab, just need to complete testing.

Best-

Daniel Symmes · October 22nd, 2009, 04:35 PM

Excellent.

Any idea about your clock accuracy (drift)?

Lance Librandi · October 22nd, 2009, 04:54 PM

[QUOTE=Mike Schell;1436482]Hi Chris-
JAM Sync in the nano/XDR is planned in the next firmware release. We already have it working in the lab, just need to complete testing.

Hi Mike,
That's great I will not operate the NanoFlash from embeded TC as I have experienced SxS card failure which stopped the camera recording thank god the NanoFlash was on internal TC. Jam Sync is a good solution for me.

Mark Job · October 22nd, 2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schell

Hi Chris-
JAM Sync in the nano/XDR is planned in the next firmware release. We already have it working in the lab, just need to complete testing.

Best-

...Yes ! Thank You soo much ! I look forward to the next release at the end of this month.

Aaron Newsome · October 22nd, 2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Atebr

As an XDR owner, it does rather feel like there was such a rush to get the Nano released, important basics functions on the xdr were pushed to one side.

Yes Chris, sometimes I do feel like some features that I don't need or consider useful, take priority over features that I DO want. Then I remind myself that if this box did no more than what it did on the day I bought it, it would still be an amazing value.

I looked at everything out there and this was and is the best option for the money.

There are some missteps that require some savvy workarounds but overall, I'm still impressed by what this box can do. I've done some multicamera work with my XDR but my other camera was not TC capable so this was not an issue for me that the XDR is TC crippled for jam sync.

Mark Job · October 22nd, 2009, 09:36 PM

Hi Aaron:
I suppose it all depends on your workflow. If you're doing allot of double system sound recording, or music video work with the XDR or Nano, then Jam sync is essential. When you're doing a multi-camera concert shoot you may very well need each camera to see and/or record the same TC reference, It can also depend on your post house requirements as well, and if the shooters are not the ones doing the editing. Also, shooting with multiple cameras equipped with multiple Nanos or XDRs may also need to be jamned together.

Aaron Newsome · October 22nd, 2009, 11:00 PM

You're right Mark. I've never shot anything that was edited by anyone else. I usually record double system since the on camera mic is never where it should be for optimal sound quality. I find that traditional sync methods (the ones that existed for decades before timecode) work fine for me. I also find that pointing both cameras at a timecode slate at the head of each clip works fine for me.

I am aware that folks that need to fit into an established workflow will not have the freedom that I have since I shoot and edit my own footage.

Mark Job · October 23rd, 2009, 09:16 AM

Hi Aaron:
You Wrote: "You're right Mark. I've never shot anything that was edited by anyone else."

.....This is why folks seem to come out of the blue asking for what sound like very unlikely features, which they seem quite adament about. Many shooters are marshalled into a particular workflow by the producer or the Network. Even if the particular workflow is rather old school and antiquated, they must shoot and post in the particular method requested.

"I usually record double system since the on camera mic is never where it should be for optimal sound quality."

......Many RED crews shoot everything double system on a digital feature. The sound man shows up with his cart and the RED camera TC is Jam synced to his TC output or vice-versa. If I had the budget, then I would happily record sound in the XDR & Double system. However, the XDR's analogue line/mic inputs are very quiet with excellent sound quality. The XDR needs to have a 96 Khz 24 bit option for digital cinema audio recording, along with a .BWF Meta-Data format header, which carries the TC and user bit information. The BWF header is essential for digital Cinema edits on Avid, since Avid is setup to read that .BWF header. - * The Sound editor **MUST** have this header in fact to perform his job. It should not be a big deal to program this into the Flash XDR, since it's only an XML file.

"I find that traditional sync methods (the ones that existed for decades before timecode) work fine for me."

.....Hollywood will continue to utilize this method because it gives so much more logistical flexibility in principal photography and post.

"I also find that pointing both cameras at a timecode slate at the head of each clip works fine for me."

In a multi-camera-Multi-XDR/Nano shoot it is essential to use a TC Slate/ or jam sync everything to a master clock.

The big message from God is it's not the format, it's the workflow.

October 22nd, 2009, 02:22 PM	#1
Chris Atebr New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: llangynidr UK Posts: 23	TC on the XDR I know this is not the first time I've posted this request but I'm beginning to get really frustrated. Why is is that very clever stuff (and frankly, niche facilities) like time lapse and pre buffering are given priority over VT basics like the ability to jam sync with other cameras? I've worked in TV for over 22 years and I can't remember recorders not having a TC in/out facility and been able to regen from an external TC once the feed is removed. As an XDR owner, it does rather feel like there was such a rush to get the Nano released, important basics functions on the xdr were pushed to one side. Please, please, please can we get some idea of when this function will be available?

October 22nd, 2009, 04:28 PM	#2
Mike Schell Convergent Design Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 869	JAM Sync in nano/XDR Hi Chris- JAM Sync in the nano/XDR is planned in the next firmware release. We already have it working in the lab, just need to complete testing. Best- __________________ Mike Schell Convergent Design

October 22nd, 2009, 09:36 PM	#7
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	TC Jam Sync Hi Aaron: I suppose it all depends on your workflow. If you're doing allot of double system sound recording, or music video work with the XDR or Nano, then Jam sync is essential. When you're doing a multi-camera concert shoot you may very well need each camera to see and/or record the same TC reference, It can also depend on your post house requirements as well, and if the shooters are not the ones doing the editing. Also, shooting with multiple cameras equipped with multiple Nanos or XDRs may also need to be jamned together. Last edited by Mark Job; October 22nd, 2009 at 09:51 PM. Reason: For purposes of clarity

October 23rd, 2009, 09:16 AM	#9
Mark Job Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,138	The Big Message From God for The Nano/XDR Hi Aaron: You Wrote: "You're right Mark. I've never shot anything that was edited by anyone else." .....This is why folks seem to come out of the blue asking for what sound like very unlikely features, which they seem quite adament about. Many shooters are marshalled into a particular workflow by the producer or the Network. Even if the particular workflow is rather old school and antiquated, they must shoot and post in the particular method requested. "I usually record double system since the on camera mic is never where it should be for optimal sound quality." ......Many RED crews shoot everything double system on a digital feature. The sound man shows up with his cart and the RED camera TC is Jam synced to his TC output or vice-versa. If I had the budget, then I would happily record sound in the XDR & Double system. However, the XDR's analogue line/mic inputs are very quiet with excellent sound quality. The XDR needs to have a 96 Khz 24 bit option for digital cinema audio recording, along with a .BWF Meta-Data format header, which carries the TC and user bit information. The BWF header is essential for digital Cinema edits on Avid, since Avid is setup to read that .BWF header. - * The Sound editor MUST have this header in fact to perform his job. It should not be a big deal to program this into the Flash XDR, since it's only an XML file. "I find that traditional sync methods (the ones that existed for decades before timecode) work fine for me." .....Hollywood will continue to utilize this method because it gives so much more logistical flexibility in principal photography and post. "I also find that pointing both cameras at a timecode slate at the head of each clip works fine for me." In a multi-camera-Multi-XDR/Nano shoot it is essential to use a TC Slate/ or jam sync everything to a master clock. The big message from God is it's not the format, it's the workflow.

October 22nd, 2009, 04:35 PM	#3
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	Excellent. Any idea about your clock accuracy (drift)?

October 22nd, 2009, 04:54 PM	#4
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	[QUOTE=Mike Schell;1436482]Hi Chris- JAM Sync in the nano/XDR is planned in the next firmware release. We already have it working in the lab, just need to complete testing. Hi Mike, That's great I will not operate the NanoFlash from embeded TC as I have experienced SxS card failure which stopped the camera recording thank god the NanoFlash was on internal TC. Jam Sync is a good solution for me.

October 22nd, 2009, 11:00 PM	#8
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	You're right Mark. I've never shot anything that was edited by anyone else. I usually record double system since the on camera mic is never where it should be for optimal sound quality. I find that traditional sync methods (the ones that existed for decades before timecode) work fine for me. I also find that pointing both cameras at a timecode slate at the head of each clip works fine for me. I am aware that folks that need to fit into an established workflow will not have the freedom that I have since I shoot and edit my own footage.