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Old October 28th, 2009, 11:51 AM   #1
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Decrease Minimum Timelapse?

If I understand the settings, the minimum time lapse I can set is 1 frame every second. I want more frames. :) I would like to be able to set 1 frame every half or quarter second (or two or four frames per second, if you prefer to figure it that way).

Yesterday I recorded a few hours of our setup for a 20 camera show this weekend, including an amazing 30 second section where about 50 people lift up and move a 100 foot circular stage 25 feet, but it plays faster than I like. I was recording at what I think is the minimum, which is 1 frame per second.

So here's a request for the time lapse function to allow more than 1 frame a second.

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Old October 28th, 2009, 01:25 PM   #2
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What you want is Undercranking.
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Old October 28th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Rafael Amador View Post
What you want is Undercranking.
Rafael
Hi Rafael-
Precisely, that's on the development schedule for Nov. You can dial in frame rates from 1 to 30 in 1080p30 and 1 to 60 in 720p60, etc.

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Old October 28th, 2009, 01:49 PM   #4
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I'm not sure at what frame rate overcranking and undercranking become the appropriate word, I just guessed that one was used at faster than 24 (30) fps and one was used at slower.

Thanks Mike, I'm looking forward to being able to capture more frames per second than 1 (but nowhere near 24/30 per second).

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Old October 29th, 2009, 12:19 AM   #5
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Hi Billy, capturing anything less than 24fps would be considered undercranking.

Anytime I need something between 2-23fps, I capture at 24fps and in post, I remove however many frames I need to in order to get the desired frame rate. If I use every other frame from the captured sequence, the effective frame rate is 12fps and so on. I can use every 3rd frame, 4th frame, etc.
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Old October 29th, 2009, 05:02 AM   #6
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I think that Over/Under is relative to your final output.
If you are working in 30fps, shooting more than that will be "over", and less will be Under.
Same for 24 or 25.
With the Undercranking and the time-lapse we have covered all the under-speed needs.
The Over-speed are already available by recording p60 or p50.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 07:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome View Post
Hi Billy, capturing anything less than 24fps would be considered undercranking.

Anytime I need something between 2-23fps, I capture at 24fps and in post, I remove however many frames I need to in order to get the desired frame rate. If I use every other frame from the captured sequence, the effective frame rate is 12fps and so on. I can use every 3rd frame, 4th frame, etc.
As I understand is this is not "true" undercranking?

The primary difference, between removing frames and "picking" frames out of an HD-SDI stream to actually recording say 6fps native is exposure time. I don't think you can get those wild motion blurs you can get with long exposure times with "true" undercranking. My logic is that for that 6fps in say 24P stream, the data is actually spread over 4 frames and those 4 frames would need to be "blended" together in one frame, if you set your shutter to 1/6th of a second?

I think Phillip Bloom has an example in Exposure Room. I'm not 100% on this as I'm not really sure how video cameras undercrank

Of course still another stunning feature for the nanoflash as the "motion blur" example is a very specific one.
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Old October 30th, 2009, 08:04 PM   #8
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Over/Under Crank

Here's a good explanation of over / under crank from Panasonic:

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro...varicam02.html

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Old October 31st, 2009, 05:15 AM   #9
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Dear John,

When using the Flash XDR and nanoFlash, one can obviously choose a longer exposure time for each frame, or not, for their desired effect.

But, as you point out, we can not blend multiple frames togeter, thus creating an even longer exposure time.

Blending frames is beyond the scope of what we intend to accomplish at this time.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 10:54 AM   #10
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Stop Shutter Open, Stop Shutter Open, Stop Shutter Open

Hey Dan:
A long time ago we had a conversation where I had asked for a possible time lapse capability whereby I could use my XL H1 on an equatorial mount and have some sort of electronic equivalent of a film time lapse-time exposure each frame effect. Now in that conversation I remember you theorized the Flash XDR could possibly *Clock* the CCD's via the HD-SDI output by collecting a series of scans which could be blended together to somehow totalize the time exposure effect. Do you think this is still a possibility ?
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Old October 31st, 2009, 11:21 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mike Schell View Post
Here's a good explanation of over / under crank from Panasonic:

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro...varicam02.html

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Mike,
That is a very good explanation for the way that Panasonic Varicam handles over/undercrank recording to tape. The down side of that is that you can not immediately playback "slowmo" footage from the camera, you have to wait to get back to the edit suite.

Sony Cinealta cameras handle this in a different way. Sony uses a memory buffer system that collects the correct variable frame rate and then records that to disc/card. With this system you can immediately play back the material as it was intended, at a slow or fast rate from the camera.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 11:29 AM   #12
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Internal storage like the Weisscam.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 12:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Job View Post
Hey Dan:
A long time ago we had a conversation where I had asked for a possible time lapse capability whereby I could use my XL H1 on an equatorial mount and have some sort of electronic equivalent of a film time lapse-time exposure each frame effect. Now in that conversation I remember you theorized the Flash XDR could possibly *Clock* the CCD's via the HD-SDI output by collecting a series of scans which could be blended together to somehow totalize the time exposure effect. Do you think this is still a possibility ?
Dear Mark,

I remember the conversation well.

Our plate if pretty full right now.

I do think this would be a very nice feature in an Editor.

The advantage would be that if a plane or satellite went overhead, one could edit out those frames before the accumulation would occur.

Also, I would expect that the professional CCD's for telescopes are better optimized for astronomy, than one optimized for video.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 12:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Job View Post
Hey Dan:
A long time ago we had a conversation where I had asked for a possible time lapse capability whereby I could use my XL H1 on an equatorial mount and have some sort of electronic equivalent of a film time lapse-time exposure each frame effect. Now in that conversation I remember you theorized the Flash XDR could possibly *Clock* the CCD's via the HD-SDI output by collecting a series of scans which could be blended together to somehow totalize the time exposure effect. Do you think this is still a possibility ?
if you want to accumulate light over a period longer than the exposure time for each frame, you can effectively do this in post. i use shake but you can use motion or after effects too. you'll get a nice blurring effect if there is motion in the scene, but mostly you'll get low light magic since you are accumulating light from multiple frames into a single frame.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 01:10 PM   #15
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What Can Be Done Here ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Keaton View Post
Dear Mark,

I remember the conversation well.

Our plate if pretty full right now.

I do think this would be a very nice feature in an Editor.

The advantage would be that if a plane or satellite went overhead, one could edit out those frames before the accumulation would occur.

Also, I would expect that the professional CCD's for telescopes are better optimized for astronomy, than one optimized for video.
...Hey Dan & Aaron: I have some tech questions about this rather increadibly intriquing possibility.

1: If I set my shutter speed to its lowest setting in my XL H1 will this effectively increase the exposure time of the single frames my XDR records in Time Lapse Mode ?

2. Aaron, can you elaborate further about this light accumulation effect possible in After Effrects or in an NLE editor ?

3. Can I do this using Avid Media Composer or Final Cut Pro ?
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