nanoFlash with tape based camcorders (HDX900, F-900R, etc.) - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > External Video Recording Solutions > Convergent Design Odyssey

Convergent Design Odyssey
...and other Convergent Design products.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 5th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #16
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Carbondale, Colorado
Posts: 117
Absolutely, it answers my question. Thanks!
__________________
Bob
FireDancer Productions, Inc.
Bob Griffiths is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2010, 01:52 AM   #17
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Australia
Posts: 371
Hello Steve,
Another possible way to trigger the NanoFlash may be to take a pulse from the lens remote connector which could fire the Nanoflash. This would allow to set the Nano to internal TC and operate regardless of camera TC or tape. I have an older SD production camera that I would like to use the NanoFlash on and this was one method that could work. I have not had time to investigate it further so itís still only a theory.
Lance Librandi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2010, 07:38 AM   #18
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Lance,

We agree. We have this in our plans.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2010, 11:11 AM   #19
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 96
Lance and Dan... I assume the nano would have to generate TC in that case. I haven't actually tried using the nano to generate Record Run TC, but I assume it does do that. Is that correct?

Of course, that would mean getting the correct custom cable to go between the lens and the camera body to trigger the nano. That could be expensive and, of course, you'd have to have a backup, because s#&* happens :-(

I like Andy's idea for triggering the nano from the camera's VITC/User Bits record flag. I wonder though... will that flag be generated if there is no tape in the camera?
Steve Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2010, 11:39 AM   #20
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Steve,

Yes, the nanoFlash can generate internal timecode, in multiple formats, including Time of Day, Record Run and others.

We have found an expert in making these "Lens" cables, someone with lots of experience. I do not know what the price will be.

Yes, we will be detecting the Record Flag in the User Bits. We will get to this as soon as possible. However, we do not have a Panasonic Varicam to test with at time.

At this time, subject to change, I am assuming that the Record Flag in the User Bits will not be set unless the camera is actually recording, thus a tape would be required.

We will study the manual just as soon as we find time.

We are also searching for information on the "Record Flag" that some cameras put into the HD-SDI stream.

Our promised Beta release is expected next week. It is still undergoing our normal internal testing at this time. This will be the same thorough testing that we perform for our regular releases.

As soon as we finish testing, we will be releasing this Beta Release for non-production purposes.

Our new Beta problem will allow our users to test the new features and functions before we release the code for production use.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2010, 01:36 PM   #21
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 96
Thanks, Dan. As always, I appreciate the efforts by everyone at CD!
Steve Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2010, 01:48 AM   #22
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: san francisco california
Posts: 145
Record cable

Well, it is no so impractical if you have a record cable which you can rig in the camera in an easy to reach position close to you. There is also a light on the cable telling you the Nanoflash is in stand by or recording. The cable can be ordered directly from CD in any length. About $80.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Brown View Post
I think these cameras may be in the minority of cameras being used with C-D recorders, but they do provide some advantages and disadvantages to non-tape based cameras.

One advantage is that we can roll tape as a backup, which is a cheap, reliable archival format.

One disadvantage is that it is necessary to roll tape to trigger the recording of the nano. Reaching over (or up) to trigger the nano manually is impractical, unless one is in a stationary position on a tripod and recording very long shots.

Fortunately, those two things work pretty well together... as long as record run time code is being used. If free run time code is necessary (as in many multi-camera shoots, where the cameras can't be connected to distribute time code to all) that presents a problem. If the camera's TC is left free running, the nano will continue to record.

The HDX900 does have a power out/tally out connector, which is on the back of the camera. It is typically used to power wireless receivers or to provide remote tally when the camera is on a jib or crane. I imagine that a cable could be made to trigger the nano by connecting the tally out connection (requires a 4-pin Hirose) to the 10-pin Hirose female connector supplied by C-D. Is that a cable C-D could make if I supply the pin-out?

Is there another more practical solution to this?

I thought it might be possible to make a one-size-fits-all cable with a sensor, which could be affixed over any tally light and connect to the nano's remote connector to start recording. That would work for any camera with a tally light.

Sensors such as these are currently used to wirelessly transmit tally for jib operators. Maybe we could steal their idea for our own purposes?

Your thoughts?
Augusto Manuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2010, 10:09 PM   #23
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Brown View Post
Thanks, Dan. As always, I appreciate the efforts by everyone at CD!
Hi Steve

Thanks for your earlier posts.. I,ve copied them safely away! I also have an HDX900.. fine camera except for the view finder :).. and am really thinking of getting the nanoflash as thats the way things seem to be going.. although have not had a request as yet.
have used it once before with a rented F900R.. and looks like a great way to get extra milage from the HDX900..

So sorry but some real newbie questions..

1.As the HDX900 as camera setting and system setting.. so say you want to shoot 1080i 50i system setting,but camera setting 25p.. how do you set the nanoflash? 1080 50i.. 1080i 25p?..

2.Does the nanoflash recording settings have to be the same as those for the tape settings if recording simultaneously ..

3.Do you do the down loads yourself,or insist on a data wrangler..

4.Have you had any {problems} with the nano and HDX900..

5.Is the biggest CF card 32GB.. wonder if a 64GB card is in the works?

Thanks for your time
Robin Probyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2010, 08:03 AM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Robin,

1. The nanoFlash automatically detects the incoming framerate/format/etc.

The only thing we can not detect is whether the camera is sending us Progressive Segmented Frames (PSF) or Interlaced.

Examples include 1080psf29.97 / 1080psf30, or 1080i59.94 / 1080i60.

In this case, one has to properly set up the nanoFlash to say that you are sending us PSF. This allows us to properly convert PSF to true progressive for recording.

I assume the same thing applies to 1080psf25 versus 1080i50.

For 1080psf24, we do this automatically. We can do this since there is no 1080i48, thus we know that it has to be 1080psf24. The same applies to 1080psf23.976 (also known as 1080psf23.98).

2. The settings can be different between the nanoFlash and your internal camera settings.

We take the HD-SDI signal, which is not always the same as is being recorded in the camera. For most cameras, if one is recording over or under-cranked, 720p60 or 1080p30 is what is coming out the HD-SDI. We can then take that signal and record it using the nanoFlash's various modes and options.

3. The data downloads and uploads can be done by yourself, or a data wrangler, your call.

We do recommend that you make backups of your footage.

Within 60 days, we expect to release Redundant Recording so that you can record to two CompactFlash cards simultaneously.

4. The nanoFlash is very popular with the HDX900 owners and users.

5. 64 GB cards are readily available. Quality 64 GB cards are available at a reasonable price.

We have always liked Delkin cards; they always passed our qualification tests with ease.

But, for years, they did not have the capacity and speed, in their card offerrings that we needed. Now they do.

The Delkin 64 GB card is available from multiple sources for less than $300. This card is currently supported by us for any bit-rate up to and including 220 Mbps. We may be able, some time in the future to get this card to work at 280 Mbps, but we are not making any promises. This is our goal, but we have not had the time to achieve it yet.

These cards are available from nanoFlash.net and www.BHPhotoVideo.com.

We expect 128 GB cards to ship this year from multiple manufacturers.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2010, 08:46 AM   #25
Sponsor: Abel CineTech
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 360
Dan

Let me know if you still need a Varicam for testing.

Andy
__________________
Andy Shipsides -Camera Technology Specialist
AbelCineTech, New York - Visit our Blog - http://blog.abelcine.com
Andy Shipsides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2010, 07:39 PM   #26
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Andy,

Yes, we would love to use a Varicam.

I will be in touch so we can coordinate a good time for our tests and development.

We work fine with the Varicam now, it would just be nice to add some new features.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2010, 07:46 PM   #27
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 590
Hi Dan

Thanks again for your response..more questions.. :)

1.If recording without tape.. do the camera settings make any difference.. or does everything have to be set on the nanoflash..

2.Iam still unsure about HDX900 and the varicam.. unlike Sony these Pana camera,s have two settings.. system mode and camera mode.. so the system mode can be 1080i/50i BUT the camera can then be set to 25p.. some internal magic is done to make this a 25p recording and not a 50i.. so I wonder how this is dealt with when recording tape same time.. or just recording to Nanoflash..

Thanks again..good the hear a 128 GB card is on the way.. how much will they hold at 100Mbps .. most jobs I doubt the prod co will want to pay for an extra crew member.. wonder if the 10hr day will include down loading time for the DP.. Iam not holding my breath on that one.. :)

Thanks again
Robin Probyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2010, 08:39 PM   #28
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Robin,

The nanoFlash automatically detects the mode/frame rate, etc, for almost all variations of the types of HD/SD-SDI that can be sent to the nanoFlash (HDMI also).

Thus, there are not a lot of settings that have to be done on the nanoFlash.

One does not have to specify 720 or 1080, or the frame rate, etc.

Combine this with the fact that many cameras put out a normal HD/SD-SDI signal, even when they are in special modes such as over and under-cranking (Slow and Quick Modes).

I say all of this to report that "camera settings" may be set in the camera, in many cases the nanoFlash will follow. But, over and under-cranking may be set in the camera or in the nanoFlash.

I will have to think about Question 2.

The 128 GB cards will hold twice that of the 64 GB cards.

For two 128 GB cards (when they become available), at 50 Mbps Long-GOP 4:2:2, one can expect around 10.6 hours of uninterrupted, continuous recording time.

Or 5.3 hours of superb 100 Mbps footage.

Or around 106 hours (4 days and 10 hours) continuous at 5 Mbps SD-DVD.

Please note that all of these values are calculated, not something we have actually tested with a stopwatch or other precise measurement.

At the other extreme, at 280 Mbps I-Frame Only, two 128 GB cards will give you around 120 minutes of continuous recording or playback.
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2010, 09:11 PM   #29
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 590
Hi Dan

Thanks again.Obviously the nano works with the HDX900..I just wonder about the settings as this camera,like the varicam has this dual camera set up thing..

I,ll start a new thread .. targeting HDX900 owner/users..

Thanks again

Last edited by Robin Probyn; January 28th, 2010 at 09:09 PM. Reason: spelling
Robin Probyn is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > External Video Recording Solutions > Convergent Design Odyssey

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:22 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network