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Old February 1st, 2010, 04:39 PM   #1
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Standard definition DVD from Nanoflash

I have put a few posts out regarding this matter but am still looking for a definitive answer!

My colleague and I own a Sony EX1 and are very interested in purchasing a Nanoflash.
The main questions that we need answers to before we buy are as follows...

1) A lot of our output is to SD DVD and we use Macs with FCP. Therefore what is the procedure for recording with IMX 50? As in, could somebody tell me exactly how one would go about this. Does the Nanoflash record in SD or down-convert later?

2) What is the quality like of the finished SD DVD from the Nanoflash? Currently we are down-converting HD to SD via Compressor with the frame controls turned on. We are not altogether unhappy with the results but still feel we should be getting better quality and wondered if the Nanoflash would give us this or would we be better off spending our hard earned cash on another hardware downscaling solution?

Sorry if my questions are a little simplistic but it is something I have struggled to get answers to. The Nanoflash seems ideal as it would future proof the camera for the
Blu-Ray age as well as (hopefully!!!) giving us superb quality SD DVD output.

Anyway, sorry for writing a novel but can anybody help???
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Old February 1st, 2010, 04:54 PM   #2
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Thread title changed from

"A question nobody seems to able to answer for me!!!"

to

"Standard definition DVD from Nanoflash"

Please avoid ambiguous thread titles on DV Info Net. Thanks in advance,
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Old February 1st, 2010, 06:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Ruddock View Post
1) A lot of our output is to SD DVD and we use Macs with FCP. Therefore what is the procedure for recording with IMX 50? As in, could somebody tell me exactly how one would go about this. Does the Nanoflash record in SD or down-convert later?
We, optionally, via a menu item, record in SD.

You may record in IMX 50. In our next release we will add IMX 30 and 40.

You may also record in ".MPG" at 5/6/7/8 or 9 Mbps.

".MPG" is ideal, in that this type of file may be loaded directly into certain DVD Burning Software and one can create a DVD without the time consuming step of re-rending the footage.

We need your camera to output SD-SDI to do this. We do not down-convert.

Quote:
2) What is the quality like of the finished SD DVD from the Nanoflash? Currently we are down-converting HD to SD via Compressor with the frame controls turned on. We are not altogether unhappy with the results but still feel we should be getting better quality and wondered if the Nanoflash would give us this or would we be better off spending our hard earned cash on another hardware downscaling solution?
I have heard no complaints, at all, from anyone, about the quality of our SD.

But, of course, this depends mainly on the ability of your camera to produce quality SD via the SD-SDI port.

While I have not any complaints, I just do not know how many are actually doing this.

We have run tests in our labs and we were happy with both the quality, and the minimum amount of time it takes to create a DVD, once one does not have to render it.


For HD, we can create a ".MPG" file the same way. We can thus render for Blu-ray in real-time.
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Old February 1st, 2010, 08:12 PM   #4
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Hi Darren,
I used my NanoFlash in parallel with my 2/3 inch Sony DXC-D35 WSP docked to the DSR-1P DVCAM recorder and also the Sony EX3 for testing. I wanted to be sure that the SD picture from the EX3 and NanoFlash was equal to what the DVCAM recorder was producing. The NanoFlash picture was not equal to the DVCAM recording it was actually a lot better I had far more detail better colour depth, less noise and nice clean lines, given the low light conditions that I was working in.

I am now confident in using the EX3 and NanoFlash combination for SD that I have stopped using my SD camera. To get and idea of the quality set the SDI output on the EX1 to SD and connect a good quality SDI monitor to the output of the NanoFlash, the quality you will record is very close to what to see on the monitor. In FCP I output the time-line to Quicktime Movie uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 as this preserves the greatest amount of picture information. I now use BITVICE and more picture information you can present to the compressor for DVDís production the better quality the end product you will get.
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Old February 1st, 2010, 08:31 PM   #5
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Darren,

I was doing some SD recording this weekend from my EX3 to the Nanoflash. It looks GREAT.

If your content in question is almost certainly only going to SD, you can record your safety/backup to your SxS media in full HD and then in the EX1 menus set the HD-SDI port to send an SD signal to it. You can choose letterbox, squeeze or edge crop as well. Set your nanoflash to either QT (quicktime) 50 Mbit or MPEG2... whatever codec floats your boat and you are set.

There are a few other settings you have to make prior to this in order to get the nanoFlash to talk nicely to the EX1 (setting the EX to "rec run" and a few other things. All explained clearly in C-D's quickstart guide ) but it takes less than an hour to get the unit configured and do some test shots to confirm everything is A-OK.

One nice thing about the nanoFlash is the clips do not have to be "rewrapped" by Sony's file transfer utilities to use in Final Cut. Just copy and drop into the timeline.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 02:31 AM   #6
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I'm sure I will be using this method in my music recordings, of which we currently make SD DVDs, but would like to be able to publish BD versions in the future.

I never did this before, so please forgive me the dumb question (I even don't know whether this is only related to the EX SD-SDI output, the nano SD recording, or both):

- if I want SD DVD but keep the AR at 16:9, which setting should I choose?

1. In the EX1, the most natural setting would be letterbox, as it wouldn't change my original HD framing - but isn't it loosing some of (already lower) SD resolution?

2. Is the nanoFlash capable of recording 16:9 SD?

Edit It just occurred to me that my question hasn't been very clear. When I said "I never did this before", I meant of course recording SD on the nano - the SD DVD we've published so far have been downconverted from HD using Vegas (with not bad results, but I'm hoping the nano SD version to be of much higher quality - and a breeze to edit for DVD)!
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; February 2nd, 2010 at 04:12 AM.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 05:05 AM   #7
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Dear Piotr,

Concerning question 2, Can the nanoFlash record 16 x 9?; the answer is yes.

The nanoFlash has a menu setting for SD:

16 x 9 or
4 x 3
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 05:18 AM   #8
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Thanks Dan - I've just checked it and indeed the 2 options are there.

A question to EX/nano users remains: which EX's SD-SDI out setting should be used in order to make best use of the nano 16:9 SD recording?
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 10:22 AM   #9
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You guys are talking some pretty sexy talk here! The Nanoflash is becoming a very tempting addition!!!

Would anyone have any SD Nanoflash files to download and burn (preferably shot on an EX1 or EX3) so I could compare with our own Compressor down-converted stuff?

Many thanks
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 10:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
A question to EX/nano users remains: which EX's SD-SDI out setting should be used in order to make best use of the nano 16:9 SD recording?
Piotr I don't really think it matters. You choose whether or not to have the EX do the letterboxing before it hits the nanoFlash or have the nanoflash do the letterboxing.

From a workflow perspective I think it is easier and less likely to create a human error when you are flipping around setting in both the camera and the nanoFlash to set your EX HD-SDI output to an SD signal with letterboxing invoked. This way the you are only flipping one setting on your nanoFlash from your standard HD setting to your standard SD setting.

It won't take you very long to do a couple of test shots to see which is best but I think keeping the majority of the tweaking on the camera and a simple HD to SD switch on the nanoFlash is the way to go.

The output Darren is outrageously sexy. But you won't really know how much till you get one.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 10:03 AM   #11
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Sounds seriously good Andrew!!

Can you shoot progressive with IMX 50 or is it only interlaced??
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 02:06 PM   #12
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Darren,

I recently answered someone's post, possibly yours, concerning nano SD recording onto DVD. I gave my unambiguous, definitive answer in very easy to understand and follow steps.

The nano captures the SDI signal from the (in my case) EX3. I set the EX3 to SDI (as opposed to HDSDI), so the signal input to the nano is SD. I captured everything in interlaced and 4x3 (I hate 25p) and edited in Media 100 using ProRez 422.

I created the MPEG 2 video & DD audio files using Bitvice and then author the DVD in DVDSP. Excellent results with the Awards programs (about 8 clips) played to 500 people on a huge screen in a theatre.

Hope this helps.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 03:04 PM   #13
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Hi David,

Thanks for the explanation of the mechanics. Makes things lots clearer technically!

Sounds good David. Strange that you hate 25p! I hate shooting interlaced as it looks far too video looking for my taste hence why I asked if IMX 50 is interlaced only?
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 05:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
In the EX1, the most natural setting would be letterbox, as it wouldn't change my original HD framing - but isn't it loosing some of (already lower) SD resolution?
With letterboxing you are adding a black mask above and below the image. The aspect ratio of the image is diminished on the vertical dimension but there is no downsampling beyond going from HD to SD... just black bars hiding part of the image.

I was completely struck by how good the downsampling in camera was from HD to SD and then the resultant signal on the nanoFlash.

I am definitely going to be using this feature and no need to waste time thinking about trading in the camera for an EX1R.
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