Superbowl commercial shot using the Nanoflash - Page 3 at DVinfo.net

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Old February 11th, 2010, 11:36 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
2.) Use the Report Post function. It's the little "!" icon to the left of any post.
I will use this in the future.

I just thought it was a nice gesture for Jeff to post here and feel that the tone had become less than welcoming.

Just to clarify, this was for the benefit of Nano users who like to hear about these boxes being used in very high level situations, not to "clean up" the board so to speak :)
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Old February 11th, 2010, 12:11 PM   #32
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I have received several emails from members on this forum who have complained to me time and again about the cheer leader mentality extent here and how dissent is being portrayed as rudeness and incivility. Some of the complaints I have received have come from Jeff himself among others who are getting pretty fed up of the rah, rah, rah everything's great and don't be too negative in your posts culture here. The impression I am receiving is you are not allowed to not like something here no matter how you express it ! If you disagree then you get folks who gang up on you to discourage others from posting dissenting opinions. I've been accused of attacking Jeff Silverman because I didn't like his YouTube video and it's as plain as that. I've *never* attacked Jeff, furthermore I have no ill feelings whatsoever toward him or his work. I have the uttermost respect for him and his work if the truth be told !


Some of you folks are so thin skinned, and you can't take *any* negative criticism whatsoever. If you get any you're very quick to shut down the person making the criticism - This is the culture several folks are experiencing here to me in private emails because they are too afraid to express it here ! I place the responsibility for that at your door Chris ! I don't get the impression you are as open to opinions as you claim.

Furthermore, I paid $6,000.00 CAN for my Flash XDR. This may not be a large amount in the eyes of some, but it's a respectable chunk of change to our small boutique video operation. If there's something wrong, I want to feel I have the freedom to post a problem *or express an opinion about it without being hung under the tyranny of political correctness, or attacked by fan boys !*

Respectfully,

Mark Andrew Job
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Old February 11th, 2010, 12:53 PM   #33
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Looks as if I started typing before Chris's message went up...

Though my post was not meant as any sort of direct complaint (or scolding for that matter.)

...just an observation.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 02:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Mark Job View Post
I have received several emails from members on this forum who have complained to me time and again about the cheer leader mentality extent here and how dissent is being portrayed as rudeness and incivility.
Once again -- it's not what you say, it's how you say it. When dissent is expressed rudely, then yes it is rude and therefore it has no business here. However, dissent can also be expressed in a civil tone and with professionalism, and that's when it works best (in fact, on DV Info Net that is the only way it will work). There are numerous examples of dissent presented on this site that have resulted in proactive involvement from manufacturers and changes and corrections to product lines -- this is one of the most important strengths of the forum, in fact.

I have no idea why you are receiving those emails; you are in no position whatsoever to affect policy here. I am, however, because I own this site. Nobody is sending me any such messages -- if they were, I would act on it. I can't think of anything more counterproductive to the operation of this forum than for someone to complain about the way I run it to somebody else other than me. I can't do anything about complaints that I'm not aware of. Also, I take a very dim view of the mentality that's "too afraid" to complain to me directly. Fear is our worst enemy. Show some backbone, send an email and confront me with it. Many people here know me personally through face-to-face meetings at NAB and other events. I'm a fairly nice guy, or so I'm told. I'm the one who runs this place, so if you have a problem, then whatever it is, it's not legitimate unless you put it before me -- not Mark Job or anyone else. Put it before me. Send me the email.

Quote:
Some of the complaints I have received have come from Jeff himself among others who are getting pretty fed up of the rah, rah, rah everything's great and don't be too negative in your posts culture here.
You certainly are allowed to be negative, but you must get it through your head that this site is NOT YOUR TYPICAL INTERNET FORUM EXPERIENCE. If all you want to do is bitch, then go start a blog. I have booted two people from this particular board not because they complained, but because complaining was all they did, over and over again like a broken record. They were not receptive to solutions, support, fixes, remedies or resolving problems. I have a serious issue with that. This site is based on SOLUTIONS. It is not a place for pissing and moaning. If there is a technical or creative problem, present it clearly and then follow through with the feedback. Help us to help you FIX THE PROBLEM. If you're not interested in solutions then you have no business here.

Quote:
The impression I am receiving is you are not allowed to not like something here no matter how you express it !
Not true. You are indeed allowed to express it. What you are not allowed to do here is to camp out about it, ruining the experience for everybody else. If you don't like something, say so and explain why and act like a professional when you do. Then move on. Camping out with your negativity is called thread-crapping. We don't allow that. Not everyone feels as badly as you and it's not your responsibility to make sure that they do. If you have an issue, let us help you solve it. If there is no acceptable solution then get it out of your life and let us help you find something that works.

Quote:
If you disagree then you get folks who gang up on you to discourage others from posting dissenting opinions. I've been accused of attacking Jeff Silverman because I didn't like his YouTube video and it's as plain as that. I've *never* attacked Jeff, furthermore I have no ill feelings whatsoever toward him or his work. I have the uttermost respect for him and his work if the truth be told !
If you think folks here are ganging up on you, then use the provided mechanism and REPORT THE POST!

Quote:
Some of you folks are so thin skinned, and you can't take *any* negative criticism whatsoever. If you get any you're very quick to shut down the person making the criticism
The purpose of the site -- I get to decide what it is since I own it -- is to exchange information and ideas relating to digital media content creation. We focus on technical issues and creative techniques. Negative criticism doesn't play much of a role here. Constructive criticism on the other hand is most helpful when it's called for. There are some "artiste" sensibilities on this site that are a bit too delicate for my taste, but we all accept criticism best when it's given courteously and politely. If you can't do that, then you're not an effective communicator.

Quote:
This is the culture several folks are experiencing here to me in private emails because they are too afraid to express it here ! I place the responsibility for that at your door Chris ! I don't get the impression you are as open to opinions as you claim.
Obviously I am open or I wouldn't have published this post, although we have now officially violated forum policy by hijacking Jeff's thread.

Complaints about this site's policies or culture need to be addressed by email to *me* otherwise they don't accomplish anything. We don't do meta-discussions on the forum itself (well we are right now, but normally we don't), because that's not what the forum is for. But yes of course I am open to opinions, how else do you think I've kept it growing for ten years and how else do you think I make a living at this.

Quote:
Furthermore, I paid $6,000.00 CAN for my Flash XDR. This may not be a large amount in the eyes of some, but it's a respectable chunk of change to our small boutique video operation. If there's something wrong, I want to feel I have the freedom to post a problem *or express an opinion about it...
Of course it's a respectable chunk of change and of course you have the freedom to post a problem *as long as you're receptive to feedback and solutions.* Once again, the purpose of this site is to provide usable information that you can carry into your day and apply to your business. It is not a bitch session. It is an answers-based technical resource.

Quote:
... without being hung under the tyranny of political correctness, or attacked by fan boys !*
If you think that is happening to you in one of our discussion threads, then I must insist that you respond to it in a very specific way:

USE THE REPORT POST FUNCTION

Hope this helps,
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Old February 11th, 2010, 02:27 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mark Job View Post
Hi Jeff:
but for 5 - 6 Million US I expect (((PERFECT))) digital HD picture quality.


EDIT: Now there was a guy on here a few weeks back, who was showing examples of video he was shooting on a Canon DSLR 5D & 7D, who was posting links here to Vimeo and that stuff looked Great ! Great ! Great ! This guy was shooting stuff at George Lucas's Skywalker Ranch.
It's a little bizarre to talk about perfect (in 3 pairs of parentheses, no less) picture quality and the Canon DSLR's in the same argument. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the DSLR's and have been working with them extensively of late, but it's well documented that they have many compromises in picture quality, and the codec in use is dubious at best (even compared to the EX series). Bloom's footage at Skywalker ranch was pretty; I've shot stuff with those cameras that I think looks great also, but I wouldn't hold them as the yardstick of what great (particularly Great! Great! Great!) footage is all about.

And for the record, I thought Jeff's spot looked pretty damn cool, and I LOVE that it was captured on a $3K recording device. The nanoFlash is rapidly becoming the "little engine that could"...
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Old February 11th, 2010, 03:27 PM   #36
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Hi Charles:

(Respectfully) For the record, I've never made any claim with either the Flash XDR or the Nano Flash as being noisy, grainy, or contributing in any manner to the noise in the NFL spot. In fact, I think the XDR & Nano produce grainless images even @ Long GOP 50 Mbps. I am glad to know the Nano worked for Jeff on the spot.

MJ
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Old February 11th, 2010, 07:03 PM   #37
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Hi Mark. I saw the clip and I watched it like I watch most things,... to enjoy the content. After enjoying the content of the clip, I went back and watched it from the beginning and I scrutinized it, which watching in real time (no pauses or studying of frames allowed).

Honestly, I didn't see anything that would make me scream "NOISY". Maybe it was my subconscious telling me to remember this thing was shot at an incredibly high frame rate. Maybe it was me wishing my camera could get images that look like that? I dunno. Either way, I thought the clip was cool.

Maybe I wouldn't think the same if I scooted in from viewing distance and put the pause on.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 09:30 AM   #38
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The Only Way to Tell

Hi Aaron:
Perhaps the only way to qualify this is to have seen what the actual spot looked like on TV during the Super Bowl broadcast. Maybe what's broadcast didn't look like the YouTube version at all ? Maybe what we're looking at is an unsweetened version of the spot, or the YouTube encode *colored* the clip ? I have had so many WMV and Flash encodes change out the color correction and density settings. In digital video, it has been my experience that when the gamma setting has been blown by a bad encode, then you see a sudden graininess appear. I can confirm most web video encodes will crush color, gamma, and chop the blacks. Perhaps this is what I'm seeing ?
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Old February 12th, 2010, 09:30 AM   #39
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I for one appreciate the discussion on this board and the people on it including Mark. The XDR and Nano had a painful launch (imho), but they have become valued parts of what I can offer my clients. Convergent Design has always been available when things went wrong to try to figure it out and correct the problem. I do hope they work on informing all of us of known issues before we find out about them ourselves.

For the NFL spots the big debate was between whether we would record the raw files off the camera using cinemags and ridiculously large file sizes and then transfer and convert for editing. That approach was used at a number of games and some weeks involved as many as 17 cases of gear to accomplish. It also added a day to the workflow.

At the same time, we started with the XDR, because the Nano was not available, and captured the HD-SDI coming off of the camera. When the Nano was available we switched to that. For the most part the Nano accomplished what we needed and the problems we had were solved by the hard work and new firmware releases from CD. We traveled with as few as 2 cases of gear with this approach.

When we got to the later parts of the season, the Nano based solution was chosen as the most practical solution and was used through the Super Bowl.

Incidentally as far as content is concerned, last night I finally watched Avatar in 3D. Not a sign of grain was to be seen, the visuals were stunning, but boy did that movie suck.

Jeff
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