Jam sync two EX3’s with two NanoFash at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > External Video Recording Solutions > Convergent Design Odyssey

Convergent Design Odyssey
...and other Convergent Design products.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 1st, 2010, 07:38 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Australia
Posts: 371
Jam sync two EX3’s with two NanoFash

Hello fellow NanoFash users,

I would like some advice on setting up two EX3’s with two NanoFash recorders and be be able to Jam sync time-code the camera’s and NoanoFlash’s. The problem that I see is that I can not use Free Run TC or Time Of Day as they would send the NanoFlash’s into record as soon as they detect TC movement.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Lance Librandi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 12:12 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Lance,

Can the two EX3's be cabled together.

If so, you could cable Timecode Out of EX3-1 to Timecode In of EX3-2.

Then you could cable Timecode Out of EX3-2 to both nanoFlashes.

A BNC "Tee" would be helpful.

We can build a single custom Remote Control with Tally light, with two Timecode Inputs.


If the EX3's are to be untethered, two Ambient ClockIt or LockIt boxes would be great.

You need a cable from us to expose the Linear Time Code input for each nanoFlash.


Could you please describe your needs, tethered or untethered?
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 02:30 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Australia
Posts: 371
Dear Dan,
Thank you for your reply I anticipate that for maximum flexibility that both EX3’s with NanoFlashe’s should be untethered and able to roam at will. I have in the past Jam sync time-code in camera’s using time of day and free run TC the problem is not syncing the camera’s but simultaneously starting the NanoFlash recording using TC. I am trying to find a way to achieve this using the inbuilt TC generator of the EX3 and NanoFlash and without adding other hardware to the camera. I know that the LockIt box is very accurate and expensive. If I can solve this issue of how to get the same timecode to the two camera’s and NanoFlash combination and set them to all recording simultaneously then I will purchase the second NanoFlash.
Lance Librandi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 08:45 AM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Augusta Georgia
Posts: 5,413
Dear Lance,

If I understand correctly, you want:

Two Sony EX3's

Both Untethered from each other

Each have a nanoFlash mounted and connected to the EX3 via HD-SDI.

And you want each to use 24 Hour (Time of Day Timecode) or Free Run Timecode.

Thus you will jam-sync each EX3 to the same timecode, then remove the timecode source.
This could be peformed by jam-syncing one EX3 to the other via a simple BNC cable.

Thus, the problem becomes how to simultaneously start both nanoFlashes.

Recording on incrementing timecode is out of the question since timecode will be running constantly.

Wired remote controls are also out of the question, since the cameras are to be untethered. (A wired remote control would allow you to start each precisely).

If you want to start them about the same time (+ or - a second or two),
then each shooter could start his nanoFlash via a wired remote control located on his camera, or the Record button on the nanoFlash, when the director (or someone else calls out "Camera" or something similar).

Starting both simultaneously would require a wireless remote control for each nanoFlash.

Is this what you want us to offer?
__________________
Dan Keaton
Augusta Georgia
Dan Keaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 12:55 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 480
Just to butt in for a moment here, it's been my experience over 30 years of broadcast tv production with countless different multiple camera configurations that just syncing timecode between multiple cameras is not enough to insure perfect sync in post. All cameras have internal clocks which run independently from one another. You can jam sync timecode and disconnect but the chances are pretty much 100% that without genlocking the two cameras together, the footage will drift. Perfect synchronization has always been achieved through timecode plus genlock input and not just synched timecode input. Genlock input to a camera forces it to utilize the external clock (from another camera, sync generator or switcher) which then sychronizes the multi-camera configuration to a common timing source. If you simply connect two cameras through the timecode input/output connectors without also genlocking them, you will most likely suffer the dreaded green flash frame throughout the footage on both cameras - something you really want to avoid.

Also, C-D through Dan Keaton made me one of the timecode sync cables for my two NanoFlash units and my first test was to record 64 minutes of 100Mbs I-Frame. The picture and audio held sync from first to last frame flawlessly. The cameras were genlocked together for the test. Thanks Dan!

Sometimes Old School works the best, you might want to think about a timecode slate clapper for your two camera shoot, it still works pretty well and any drift can usually be adjusted on the timeline. Plural Eyes works great for this.
Bruce Schultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 01:36 PM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rhinelander, WI
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Schultz View Post
Genlock input to a camera forces it to utilize the external clock (from another camera, sync generator or switcher) which then sychronizes the multi-camera configuration to a common timing source.
Hi, Bruce,

Would
something like this
do it?
Adam Stanislav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:32 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 480
That is what it is built to do. This BM box generates either Tri-Level for HD or Black Burst for SD making it very versatile indeed.

Of course, you need genlock inputs on your cameras, but if you have those inputs and your cameras are not too far apart and not moving much, then just hooking them up to each other works just as well. If your cameras are in a confined area like a room or studio space they are probably eligible to be cabled together along with a timecode cable. I'm thinking two hand-helds or a pedestal/tripod configuration. For a live concert where lots of roaming is going on, perhaps not. For that, just jam sync timecode and use a timecode slate hopefully positioned somewhere where all the cameras can see it and zoom into it for timecode picture refresh whenever they are reloaded or stopped and restarted. That's real Old School but hey, it still works.

I have noticed quite a lot of interest lately in timecode syncing multiple cameras but not enough knowledge about genlock procedures which are a very important, perhaps the most important part of multi camera synchronization.
Bruce Schultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 06:59 PM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rhinelander, WI
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Schultz View Post
I have noticed quite a lot of interest lately in timecode syncing multiple cameras but not enough knowledge about genlock procedures which are a very important, perhaps the most important part of multi camera synchronization.
Yep, that would be me. :)

My camera has some kind of time code sync input, but I do not know enough about it. The camera is the Sony EX-3.

As I only own one, synchronization is not a major issue for me at this point (though once I have two, it will be because I am very much into 3D). However, I am interested into getting my EX-3 shoot at true 24p, like film cameras do. So, what I would like to know is if using that Blackmagic device would make my EX-3 shoot at true 24 and if that would also make my nanoFlash save the video as true 24p.
Adam Stanislav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 07:09 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rancho Santa Margarita
Posts: 590
The nanoFlash can record true 24p. The EX3 does have genlock in and timecode in. The EX3 can not record true 24p like a film camera. It records 23.98, 25/50, 29.97/59.94.

If you want true 24p from an EX3, you'll be doing it in post, not out of the camera.
Aaron Newsome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 07:45 PM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rhinelander, WI
Posts: 1,209
So what happens if the genlock is set to true 24p? Will the EX-3 ignore it?
Adam Stanislav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2010, 08:53 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rancho Santa Margarita
Posts: 590
My guess is yes, ignore it. The camera can't sync to a frame rate it can't operate at.
Aaron Newsome is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > External Video Recording Solutions > Convergent Design Odyssey

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:01 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network