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Old April 20th, 2010, 09:41 AM   #1
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Editing in FCP Question

Hi all, I need some help understanding something.

I am presently editing a job that I shot 1080 30p Long GOP 100 Mb/s. I have the footage on a "XDCAM HD422 1080p30 (50 Mb/s)" timeline in FCP. Everything is good. It looks great, plays back fine and edits easily. My initial fears of working in Long GOP are completely gone.

The question is about rendering effects. I have a choice to render in the XDCAM codec or in ProRes. Which is better/faster/easier? Any particular up or down sides to either?

Thanks!
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Old April 20th, 2010, 10:55 AM   #2
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ALWAYS render in ProRes when using any Long GOP format in FCP (from HDV onward). This will ensure that you are rendering frames rather than reconforming the GOP structure, which takes considerably longer than rendering.

Ned Soltz
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Old April 20th, 2010, 11:44 AM   #3
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Thanks, Ned.

So it's just pretty much speed related? No real difference in quality?
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Old April 20th, 2010, 12:24 PM   #4
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You can see a qualitative difference even in dissolves and fades. You are rendering in 10 bit with ProRes.

Make sure you set up your "Render Control" settings in your FCP User Preferences so you don't have to manually set it each time you create a new sequence.

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Old April 20th, 2010, 02:04 PM   #5
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Cool... done. Thanks!
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Old April 21st, 2010, 02:06 AM   #6
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Hi Bob,
Unless you need to deliver in XDCAM, edit directly in a Prores sequence.
Set "Render in High Precision".
rafael
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Old April 21st, 2010, 09:25 AM   #7
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Hey Rafael,

Background: I have FCP 7.0.2 and an AJA IoHD. I shot this footage with the nano at 1080 30p 100Mb/s.

So I experimented with a ProRes timeline set to "AJA IoHD:1080p 30 Apple ProRes 422". I get real time preview of video (green bar) and audio seems happy with a grey bar. It seems to happily edit. Real time FX, like 3-Way Color Corrector, doesn't give a real time preview... it sorta flashes between the pre-corrected look and the post-corrected one. (This is something i've noticed working with all Long GOP footage).

I rendered the 10 sec. test clip with no FX and it took about 12 secs... not bad. So what's the advantage of the ProRes timeline. The only penalty I can see is a small render hit.

Thanks for your help!
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Old April 21st, 2010, 10:45 AM   #8
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Hi Bob,
Rendering a clip without any kind of effect is just a transcoding.
I don't think is a test to compare codecs render speed.
Put another 10s sequence with NANO footage , with few cuts and export (no effects).
It make takes more than 12s, just to conform the MPEG-2; and there is no rendering.
I have an ioHD too, but i don't use any preset.
Normally I cut in the EX time-line and when I start to need to render I change to Prores in the Sequence Setting.
Normally the difference is noticeable. XDCAM is a pain to render to.
Anyway, as I said, I don't see the point to export to XDCAM unless you must deliver like that.
Whatever your workflow, it will be faster exporting a self-contained movie.
Sending an XDCAM sequence to Compressor to make a DVD or a web video is a no-no.
As Ned pointed out, you can let the sequence in EX, and set the renders to Prores. If this option exists is because that rendering is faster than XDCAM or HDV.
However this option is not much useful in the end.
If you export (EX), the Prores renders are lost.
Rafael
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Old April 21st, 2010, 02:45 PM   #9
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Anybody knows how the workflow behaves when you send your edited sequence to color, color correct it, render (set to ProRes) and then send it back to FC again.
does it preserves picture quality?

greetings
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Old April 21st, 2010, 03:13 PM   #10
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Thanks, Rafael. I'll give it a try!
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Old April 21st, 2010, 09:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julio Veas P. View Post
Anybody knows how the workflow behaves when you send your edited sequence to color, color correct it, render (set to ProRes) and then send it back to FC again.
does it preserves picture quality?

greetings
Works great.
rafael
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 12:53 PM   #12
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Definitive Final Cut Settings Tutorial?

MOVED TO ITS OWN THREAD


"Is there a definitive list of the best settings to use in Final Cut with nanoFlash-recorded material? Or a tutorial video that covers this?"

JD

Last edited by Jeff DePonte; April 23rd, 2010 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Moved to its own thread.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 09:00 AM   #13
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Hi Jeff,
Which problems do you find with the NANO workflow in FC?
Which is your final delivery format?
Rafael
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Old April 24th, 2010, 01:04 PM   #14
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...it's the Variables

Hi Rafael,

It's not that I have a specific problem. It's just that there are so many variables, so many settings to make in FCP that can affect the workflow and the final product. I gleaned an important one from Ned Soltz's post:

"ALWAYS render in ProRes when using any Long GOP format in FCP (from HDV onward). "

I think that if there was a way to combine all of the knowledge about working with nano files in FCP, it would benefit this entire community. It would probably also ease the tech support burden on the folks at CD.

Jeff
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Old April 26th, 2010, 08:02 AM   #15
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Hi Jeff,
The option pointed by Ned Soltz, is helpful because allows faster rendering: You keep your sequence native XDCAM, but the renders are done in Prores.
However this option have a shortcoming: These renders are just for preview. When you export the sequence, everything will be rendered again to the sequence codec (EX). This happens even if you export a "Reference Movie". So IMO this option is useful when you have to deliver in XDCAM or HDV.

For me so far the best system have been editing in a native sequence, and change the sequence codec to Prores.
If I'm just cutting, I keep the native codec till I have to export.
Normally I use Color in all my jobs. I cut native and send the sequence to Color.
When the sequence have more effects, layers, graphics, etc, that needs rendering, I change the sequence codec from the beginning. You get the same benefits of the option suggested by Ned, but you don't lose the renders.
Anyway for me the most important is not to keep these renders or not, but to have enough RT and work fast. Normally before the final export I trash all the renders. For the master export I set "Render in High Precision", and "Render Motion Effects: BEST".
Those setting improves the rendering, but also slow it down. Set them on just before exporting the sequence.
rafael
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