Dual Link HD-SDI

[Aaron Newsome]

Hi Douglas. Most Viper shots are done 1080p 23.98. Nearly every feature that I know of shot with Viper are shot with that format. It's rare indeed that I change out of this mode. I did do some slight overcrank on a recent music video though. Shot 29.97 and conformed to 23.98 in post. The shots looked beautiful.

[Douglas Call]

Most Viper shots are done 1080p 23.98. Nearly every feature that I know of shot with Viper are shot with that format.

That makes very good sense. the viper camera outputs such high quality at 23.98fps it really is like a 35mm film replacement. And since the film look is almost always associated with that frame rate look it's only natural that you would shoot at that frame rate.

[Douglas Call]

You certainly could shoot 1080 p 60 over 3G in 4:4:4 12 bit color space precision, as long as your camera can output this rate. The Sony SRW9000 HDCAM DR camcorder does precisely thus.

Mark that really is good news! I noticed that the Sony HDC1500R444 does shoots 1080/59.94P. but I'm not sure if that's through dual-link SDI or through some other interface method. I tried to check out the Sony SRW9000 HDCAM DR, I ended up finding the SRW9000 HDCAM SR version instead. It supports dual-link for sure but not at 1080/59.94P. I think the answer is very soon new cameras will start emerging that do support this format on a regular basis. Probably when our compactFlash cards hold 512GB instead of 64GB :-)

[Mark Job]

Hi Douglas:
I hit the wrong key by accident describing the Sony model. There is only the Sony SRW 9000. This camera is an HDCAM SR camcorder. *It can do 1080 @ 59.94p via Dual LInk HD-SDI and I think 3G. (??) You need to have two (2) special hardware electronic optional boards inside the camera to accomplish this feature, however.

[Douglas Call]

This camera is an HDCAM SR camcorder. *It can do 1080 @ 59.94p via Dual LInk HD-SDI and I think 3G. (??) You need to have two (2) special hardware electronic optional boards inside the camera to accomplish this feature, however.

Thanks Mark,

Now I know the exact Sony model number and camcorder that will provide this special type capability. I guess that's the end of this question :-)

what do you know about Adobe After Effects (Just kidding)!

[Sander Vreuls]

The grassvalley LDK-8000 Elite using fiber and the LDK4582 fiber basestation outputs SMPTE 425M-A (3G) HD-SDI at 1080p50/59.94

[Douglas Call]

Originally Posted by Sander Vreuls

The grassvalley LDK-8000 Elite using fiber and the LDK4582 fiber basestation outputs SMPTE 425M-A (3G) HD-SDI at 1080p50/59.94

Thanks Sander. Now I have a couple of options. There are some very esoteric ones out there like Viper Stream Camera Thompson but these are all very expensive and way over kill.

The ideal unit would coast under $50K and provide the basic broadcast capable quality using 2/3" chips and good low light levels f11 @ 2000lux. It would also support 1080p & 720p @ 60fps through dual-link SDI or 3G-SDI connection. recording to Solid state media would be good to. I guess you'd need to have about five (5) 64GB compact flash cards in it at a time :-)

[Aaron Newsome]

Well the Thomson Viper Filmstream is no longer made anymore. It's definitely more than $50k so it's really not an option.

The LDK 8000 Elite however, is still current as far as I know. Of course the Sony SRW is a new camera and is also current. I don't think the Sony qualifies as an "under $50k" camera either, even before you start loading it up with option boards.

[Douglas Call]

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

Well the Thomson Viper Filmstream is no longer made anymore. It's definitely more than $50k so it's really not an option.

The LDK 8000 Elite however, is still current as far as I know. Of course the Sony SRW is a new camera and is also current. I don't think the Sony qualifies as an "under $50k" camera either, even before you start loading it up with option boards.

I checked I can get the Sony for around $75K and I'm still waiting for pricing on the LDK 8000 from Thomson but I'm sure that's up there to. The next generation will come down below the $50k barrier. I think some of the consumer ones already shoot at 1080p @60fps but they're junk basically.

[Aaron Newsome]

This is precisely why I bought a used Viper. I looked at how much money I had then looked at EVERY option available for that much money. The Viper, hands down crushed every camera system on the planet for that much money. You find them for $25k these days. There is even a guy on this forum who had a chance to buy a Viper for $10k. Trust me when I tell you, there is nothing out there at $10k that can approach what a Viper is capable of.

[Douglas Call]

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

This is precisely why I bought a used Viper. I looked at how much money I had then looked at EVERY option available for that much money. The Viper, hands down crushed every camera system on the planet for that much money. You find them for $25k these days. There is even a guy on this forum who had a chance to buy a Viper for $10k. Trust me when I tell you, there is nothing out there at $10k that can approach what a Viper is capable of.

Thanks for that bit of Advice. How many hours did your unit have on it. did you find out what it costs to send the unit in for a full maintenance to make sure everything is A-OK?

Did you also pick up your Lens (and other required accessories) on ebay?

[Mark Job]

Hi Aaron:
The only camera which can beat the Viper is the fully decked out Sony SRW 9000 with the Super 35 MM CCD's installed and the full Cine-Gamma hardware LUT board & 9001, 9002 extra board set installed. You then can accomplish 1080 p60 @ 4:4:4 color space and 12 bit color precision via 3G HD-SDI. *However, this is a *VERY* expensive option for the SRW 9000 HDCAM SR camcorder. You will easily exceed $100,000.00 US Sony has announced its own SSDR add on for this camcorder, but I would imagine it's not cheap. They also have an option for the Convergent Design Nano Flash.

[Aaron Newsome]

Originally Posted by Douglas Call

Thanks for that bit of Advice. How many hours did your unit have on it. did you find out what it costs to send the unit in for a full maintenance to make sure everything is A-OK?

Did you also pick up your Lens (and other required accessories) on ebay?

Hi Douglas. Grass Valley charged me $1200 to check out the camera but that included some minor repairs (nothing affecting picture or electronics). They did a full scope and check of every output and test point to make sure everything was working properly. I thought it was a little pricey (heck, I only paid $1900 total for my JVC HD-100) but I wanted to be able to shoot with confidence. Especially important when people are paying you.

The number of hours the Viper ran is not as critical as a camera with a built in recorder. The Viper has no recorder. The things you worry most about are the shutter motor and the fans, the only real moving parts and neither are too expensive. To answer your question, I have no idea how many hours the camera has ran. It might be a little misleading anyway. Most of the things I shoot, the camera is ON all day, every day for the entire shoot. It never gets turned off.

I got a Fujinon HD Lens, used for about $6k. Brand new the lens is only $8k though.

My recording system is the Flash XDR for compressed 8bit 422 and the Cinedeck for compressed or uncompressed 10bit 444 and 422. A few dozen other accessories and you've got yourself a nice little rig. Not once have I been dissatisfied with the results from the Viper, even when I had a cheap SD lens on it.

[Douglas Call]

Originally Posted by Aaron Newsome

My recording system is the Flash XDR for compressed 8bit 422 and the Cinedeck for compressed or uncompressed 10bit 444 and 422. A few dozen other accessories and you've got yourself a nice little rig. Not once have I been dissatisfied with the results from the Viper, even when I had a cheap SD lens on it.

We'll that is very good information. It also appears that you're very satisfied with the performance aspects of this camera. What it sounds like your saying is that you bought a workable 1080p @60fps camera/recorder system for under $20K! That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. I'm not really as familiar with the Tompson products. At one time I was looking at the Infinity but never quite went there. Then the Sony came out with the SRW9000 which records to a different codec I guess. Nevertheless the final uncompressed output should be pretty much the same assuming the sensors capturing the light are of equal quality.

BTW I tried looking for the Flash XDR and kept seeing the NanoFlash. I know they're both from Convergent-Design. Is the NanoFlash just the newer lighter version of the Flash XDR, for some reason I didn't notice the Flash XDR in Convergent-Design's product drop down menu.

I guess the Sony has the added advantage (but also the weight) of an onboard recorder.

[Dan Keaton]

Dear Douglas,

The Flash XDR is a wonderful recorder, we are just not currently manufacturing it.

The nanoFlash is much smaller and light, and has only two CompactFlash card slots.

The Flash XDR audio has two balanced XLR inputs, with state of the art audio circuits.

For the nanoFlash, most people run the audio through their camera then out the HD-SDI, or through a mixer and use the Tape Out to the 2-Channel analog audio input via a single 3.5mm input jack.

One balance audio input is available via the same 3.5mm input jack on the nanoFlash.

One can get good quality 24-Bit / 48K audio via the nanoFlashes audio inputs.