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Old August 23rd, 2010, 05:41 PM   #1
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RED material to cut together with EX3/Nano or F900/nano

Hello Dan et all,
I have a question regarding video material shot with Red camera and we need some pickups (not a scene), timelaps and establishing stady shots. The cameras I have are EX3 and F900 with NF from CD.
Oh well, I just got the news that F900 is out. Red was shot at 23.976 4K and edit on FCP7 at 2K downconverted to 1920/1080p QT files
We need to cut the material with the Red and my question to the board is what is the best rate and format for the NF to be able to do that (using Sony EX3 for camera)? Thank you
Luben
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 06:34 PM   #2
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Dear Luben,

I would shoot with the EX3 set to 1920 x 1080, using adequate light, shot at 23.976, recording into the nanoFlash using a high bit-rate if possible.

If you have relatively fast CompactFlash cards, and not too long of a scene to shoot, I would use 220 Mbps I-Frame Only. Or if you have the fastest cards, I would shoot 280 Mbps.

I am open to other suggestions.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 07:38 PM   #3
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Thank you Dan!
I was going to shoot I-Frame only following CD recommendations. I was also shopping for experience with mixing Red and NF files, bit rate, picture Q... any info...
Yes, I can record 280Mbps. I have 8 cards and that should be good for nearly 2h.
Thank you Dan, I am open for other ideas too
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 08:10 PM   #4
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Dear Luben,

As you are aware, intercutting between two different cameras can be tough.

You have an advantage in that the Red footage has been reduced to 1920 x 1080.

You may find that this can work, but the proof is in actually doing it.

(I am basing on comments on Paul Cronin's experience in testing Sony EX series versus the Red camera, specifically comparing both after downsizing the red to 1920 x 1080.)
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 08:25 PM   #5
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Thank you Dan!,
Do you have a link to that post? Also downsizing to 1920/1080 could be done on a very high quality, so I am quite interested to see what his experience with that is. My Red QT files are 50% the quality-using RedRocket.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 08:06 AM   #6
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Dear Luben,

My post was based on a personal conversation with Paul Cronin.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 03:19 PM   #7
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The EX3's produce really good results. BUT (per an epic thread elsewhere), the EX's are noiser. As Dan said, pump the light level up, shoot at around f4 (more than about f5.6 and the image starts to degrade from defraction), shutter at 1/60 (similar blur as 1/50th).
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Old August 28th, 2010, 05:01 PM   #8
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samples

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Symmes View Post
The EX3's produce really good results. BUT (per an epic thread elsewhere), the EX's are noiser. As Dan said, pump the light level up, shoot at around f4 (more than about f5.6 and the image starts to degrade from defraction), shutter at 1/60 (similar blur as 1/50th).
Hello Daniel,
Thank you for the recommendations!, I just read them and the reality is that I didn't have a chance to shoot anyway different then that. It was great.... I had to shoot 23.976 and the shutter was at 180 Angle. Below are some small files each of them originally was over a 100 MB before the compression for uploading here. All shot with EX3 and NF I-Frame at 280Mbps. The files are from the NF QT files. One as you would see is in motion (30mph) and one is a steady shot.
You would hopefully be able to see more of them and compare to the rest of the movie if/when you see the last movie of 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin. The opening scenes and head credits are EX3/NF
Attached Files
File Type: wmv Bellhaven.wmv (2.80 MB, 84 views)
File Type: wmv MountRainier.wmv (2.38 MB, 67 views)
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Old August 29th, 2010, 06:20 PM   #9
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280 ...

How much time did you get on your cards at this data rate?
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Old August 29th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #10
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Re 280...

Hi Dean,
I had with me 8 cards 32GB ea. I did not shoot longer then 25min per set. CD states that 32GB cards at that rate would do 28min, but, I didn't wanna push to the limit, plus you never know you may miss something exactly at the moment when your cards are full... ;-) Direct answer to your question is, I had 100 min to play with for a day. That's a lot if you have your target scouted before you shoot, otherwise is not enough for point and shoot!
I had at the end of the first day a very long time-laps of the city going dusk and into night and the rise of the moon at the same time (it was a full moon that day) and I was just fine with the 100min for the day. I used the NF for the time laps and record the video material on EX3 SxS cards (hot swapping is a great tool). I did that because I was after the time-laps although the video is astonishing too!
Question to you and anyone else here please. If I did the time-laps on EX3 will the NF record properly the video signal from EX3? I would guess yes, but, I didn't wanna take a chance and used the NF for my Time-laps.
Thank you for the question.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 07:38 PM   #11
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Dear Luben,

You can run a quick test, but if you do a time-lapse in the Sony EX cameras, the HD-SDI output remains normal. Thus you can also do timelapse in the nanoFlash, even at a different time interval.

Thus, all options are possible, timelapse in either device, or not.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 07:42 PM   #12
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time lapse ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Keaton View Post
Dear Luben,

You can run a quick test, but if you do a time-lapse in the Sony EX cameras, the HD-SDI output remains normal. Thus you can also do timelapse in the nanoFlash, even at a different time interval.

Thus, all options are possible, timelapse in either device, or not.
Dan that is very cool. Thanks Luben for the info. I'll be testing this concept out ASAP.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 08:07 PM   #13
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Thank you

Thank you Dan! Good to know that for sure from a credible source. Next time I'll swap the tools... Your welcome Dean.
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Old September 25th, 2010, 09:58 PM   #14
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F900R vs: EX-3 w/Nano Flash

Hello Folks:

About two years ago I shot a feature documentary with the Sony F900R. Post production money fell thru and now we are shooting a bit more later in October. I now own an EX-3 and suggested using it on the shoot. Do you think the Nano Flash would bring that camera close to what I did with the 900R?

I've read your earlier comments about using more light and shooting close to an f/4. That may or may not be possible as available light could be anything.

Any thoughts on the settings for the Picture Profile or bit rate?

Joe
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Old September 26th, 2010, 10:12 AM   #15
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The EX3 is noisier than the F900 so get some light on the subject. Yes, f4 is a good aperture to keep defraction down.

nanoFlash records 4:2:2. You didn't mention what you recorded to from the F900 but if it was HDCAM, that was 3:1:1. I'd shoot 180 or 220 I Frame and I suspect you'll have no problems intercutting.
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