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Old January 22nd, 2011, 08:08 PM   #1
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New nanoFlash on The Way!!!

Finally, I get the approval from my biz partner to order the nano; so, my Abel Cine will have it this Tuesday (they stock it but not the CF cards). I am so pumped!

Here is what I got and how I plan to use it:
- 2 64GB Transcend 400x cards for long events
- 2 32GB Sandisk Extreme so I at least can do 280Mb I-frame
- nanoFlash kit
- powered via Swit 88whr batteries on my Zacuto Newsman shoulder rig when used with an EX3
- main use will be with a Tricaster XD300 so I can record progressive (THANKS to Lance!)

I plan to use the nano's SDI out to a production Panasonic BT-LH1710w for monitoring when using the XD300.

1) Is the nano SDI out uncompressed or what the nano is recording?

How much record time can I get with 2) just the nano connected to an 88whr battery and 3) EX3, nano & Dedo LEDZilla light (8watts)? Is this as simple as adding each device's wattage and dividing into 88?

4) for greenscreen, which is the best: 180Mb L-GOP or 280 I-frame for keying with AE CS5/Keylight?

5) What is a good field backup device - something from Nexto?

6) Probably my most important question so far: the DVD format files the nano records, are they mpg files or VOB? We plan to market our switcher and the nanoFlash as being able to make DVDs immediately after a graduation ceremony as a way to increase DVD sales (hopefully).

To Dan et al at CD, it is your dedication to your customers that sealed the deal for me versus something like the Ki Pro. FYI, an untapped market for you guys is switchers. Many Tricaster owners use the Ki Pro and Lance from AU is the only person I know of who uses the nanoFlash with a switcher. I bet the major reason for using the Ki Pro is long record times but the nanoFlash is capable of that as well with Hot Swap now enabled. Long record times is a must for me otherwise I might have had to go with an Aja.

Thanks.
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Old January 22nd, 2011, 11:24 PM   #2
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I can answer one question:
I-frame for Keylight, no doubt about it, and 4:2:2 (not 4:2:0 or worse). Having said that, I've keyed HDV 4:2:0 on Keylight and if used with masks and fill mattes, works very well, too. Fine details like hair will cause major issues in GOP video. Avoid it if you can.

I have a question of my own:
The nanoflash can only take 4:2:2 (or so I've heard). I would appreciate it if you could tell me what exactly it's for? If I can output HD-SDI 4:4:4 via the EX3, wouldn't I need roughly the same hard drive write speeds? I have to say I have no experience with the nanoflash and it's price makes it prohibitive to use in India.

Thanks, and keep that good mood of yours going!
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 07:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post
1) Is the nano SDI out uncompressed or what the nano is recording?
All SDI signals are uncompressed.

If the signal is from the sensor of a camera, it is the best signal that the camera can output.

Depending on the camera it is typically 4:2:2. 4:4:4 requires dual-link HD-SDI or a 3G HD-SDI link.

I am not familar with any camera that outputs 4:2:0 via HD-SDI.

While all SDI signals are uncompressed, this does not mean that they have not been compressed at some point and then converted to an uncompressed format again for transmission to another device.



Quote:
How much record time can I get with 2) just the nano connected to an 88whr battery and 3) EX3, nano & Dedo LEDZilla light (8watts)? Is this as simple as adding each device's wattage and dividing into 88?
Yes. The nanoFlash draws about 5.6 watts. Just be aware that some battery manufacturers exaggerate their battery ratings. So do the calculations, then expect less run time.

Using 13.5 watts for the EX3, I get 13.5+5.6+8 = 27.1 watts. 88 / 27.1 = 3.25 hours.

I would expect that you would get approximately 3 hours.

When doing this math, a large load, one that is a significant percentage of the batteries Watt Hours, will cause the run time result to be actually less than the calculation.

When using a light load, the actual run time will be more than the calculation.

Your 27.1 watts is 31% of the 88 Watt-Hours. thus the number should be approximately correct.

However the battery may or may not be 88 WH, and the load values may be incorrect.

In any case, you should get over 2 hours and most likely over 2.5 hours.

Quote:
4) for greenscreen, which is the best: 180Mb L-GOP or 280 I-frame for keying with AE CS5/Keylight?
Our 280 Mbps I-Frame Only is best.

We have many reports of our 100 Mbps Long-GOP working very well for green screen work.


Quote:
5) What is a good field backup device - something from Nexto?
Absolutely, Nexto Devices are very good, well designed, reliable devices. I highly recommend these and have had great luck with them in the field.

Quote:
6) Probably my most important question so far: the DVD format files the nano records, are they mpg files or VOB? We plan to market our switcher and the nanoFlash as being able to make DVDs immediately after a graduation ceremony as a way to increase DVD sales (hopefully).
Our MPG files are "MPG" not "VOB"

Quote:
To Dan et al at CD, it is your dedication to your customers that sealed the deal for me versus something like the Ki Pro. FYI, an untapped market for you guys is switchers. Many Tricaster owners use the Ki Pro and Lance from AU is the only person I know of who uses the nanoFlash with a switcher. I bet the major reason for using the Ki Pro is long record times but the nanoFlash is capable of that as well with Hot Swap now enabled. Long record times is a must for me otherwise I might have had to go with an Aja.
Thank you very much. With two of the Axtremex 128 GB cards, one can record at 50 Mbps for over 10 hours, over 5 hours at 100 Mbps, and so on, uninterrupted, without using Hot Swapping.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 07:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sareesh Sudhakaran View Post
I can answer one question:
I-frame for Keylight, no doubt about it, and 4:2:2 (not 4:2:0 or worse). Having said that, I've keyed HDV 4:2:0 on Keylight and if used with masks and fill mattes, works very well, too. Fine details like hair will cause major issues in GOP video. Avoid it if you can.
One can certainly use our 100 Mbps Long-GOP for green screen work. This is vastly different than 25 Mbps HDV which is 1440 x 1080. We are 1920 x 1080 4:2:2. [/quote]

Quote:
I have a question of my own:
The nanoflash can only take 4:2:2 (or so I've heard). I would appreciate it if you could tell me what exactly it's for? If I can output HD-SDI 4:4:4 via the EX3, wouldn't I need roughly the same hard drive write speeds? I have to say I have no experience with the nanoflash and it's price makes it prohibitive to use in India.

Thanks, and keep that good mood of yours going!
The EX3 does not output 4:4:4 over HD-SDI. It may be possible that it outputs 4:4:4 over HDMI, but I doubt that it does.

The nanoFlash uses Single-Link HD-SDI and 4:4:4 can not be transmitted over this HD-SDI signal.

Even if a 4:4:4 signal is sent over HDMI, the nanoFlash will extract 4:2:2 from it and record it.

4:4:4 requires more disk space.

I am sorry that the nanoFlash is not affordable in India.
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Last edited by Dan Keaton; January 23rd, 2011 at 01:43 PM.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 08:23 AM   #5
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Just tossing in two more cents of impressions and info...

I have a client who doesn't like to deal with the transfer times for large files, and I recently completed a rather complex green screen job for them, with all foreground elements shot with an EX1 and the NanoFlash recording at 100 Mbps LongGOP. Half a dozen actors and more than a dozen background 'locations', some of the shots full length, and even one scene with the subject sitting on a dark green park bench! It all keyed BEAUTIFULLY -- even the shots where we saw feet or had fine details. I showed some of it at a Sony dealer event on a 50+ inch screen, and the only place I got a 'that looks like a key' comment was a hand passing in front of an Ipad screen - which was shot live with real content on the screen and not keyed at all! The production company used Boris FX for the compositing (they cut in FCP, and say that Boris is hugely better than what's built into FCP). Of course we did spend some time with the lighting to make sure that everything was lit properly. I haven't done any direct LongGOP vs I-Frame tests, but have had wonderful results both with 100 LongGop and 220 I-Frame (I have Delkin cards, which seem happier at 220, so I haven't been doing 280).

As to the HDMI out - the EX3 doesn't have one.
The EX1R does have an HDMI out, but I'm pretty sure it's a 4:2:2 signal.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 08:44 AM   #6
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Yes. EXi1R HDMI is 4:2:2
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Keaton View Post
One can certainly use our 100 Mbps Long-GOP for green screen work. This is vastly different than 25 Mbps HDV which is 1440 x 1080. We are 1920 x 1080 4:2:2.
I agree. I-frame is better, as you stated in your post.

Quote:
The EX3 does not output 4:4:4 over HD-SDI. The nanoFlash uses Single-Link HD-SDI and 4:4:4 can not be transmitted over this HD-SDI signal.
Dan, can you tell me what exactly the nano flash does that cannot be done with what the camera has already? I'm just trying to figure out what value it gives and then decide for myself whether it's good enough in my particular case. Unfortunately, there's nobody I know who (in India) who uses it or rents it.

Quote:
I am sorry that the nanoFlash is not affordable in India.
Maybe if people were clearly informed of its value, there is always a market here. I apologize if my earlier statement seemed a bit negative. Not intended that way. Thanks.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:44 PM   #8
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Hello Sareesh,
Just jumping in for a second, I'd recommend that you take a look at the Convergent Design website and some of the other forum threads.
Advantages of the NanoFlash tend to depend on your camera system, style of working, specific needs, etc.
I've found numerous reasons for using it, starting with the simple fact that it records 4:2:2 as opposed to the EX 1 and 3 cameras recording 4:2:0 to their SxS cards, which is particularly valuable combined with higher bit rates when doing blue or green screen shoots. I tend to also use it simultaneously to convert HD-SDI to HDMI for a client monitor (a consumer Bravia) while simultaneously outputting to an HD-SDI monitor, and sometimes I'll also use it as an automatic client playback system, particularly when I don't want to tie up the camera as a playback deck. Some of my clients cut in Final Cut Pro, and for them I record in .mov files so they don't have to re-wrap BPAV folders. They're editing that much sooner, and that makes them happy to pay a few extra dollars for it. For other clients I shoot 50Mbps MXF files and am able to transfer them directly to XDcam Pro-Discs using an inexpensive Sony U-1 drive, thereby creating archive quality originals that fit into their workflow. As part of the U-1 transfer process, proxy files are simultaneously created, so the discs are the same that would have been created with a far more expensive 700 or 800 camera.
Others will have different uses for the NanoFlash, but just about everyone I know who has one has found plenty of good reasons for having bought it.
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