4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? at DVinfo.net

Ken Hull · March 27th, 2011, 12:17 PM

Are there any "affordable" camcorders/cameras that output 4:4:4 for the Gemini to record? (By affordable, I mean something under $30K.)

Also, I assume that that the HD/SDI connector must be used for 4:4:4, or can HDMI output that?

Ken

Brian Drysdale · March 27th, 2011, 12:25 PM

The Sony F3 will have a 4;4:4 output.

Simon Wood · March 27th, 2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Hull

Also, I assume that that the HD/SDI connector must be used for 4:4:4, or can HDMI output that?

Ken

Moot point - Gemini does not have HDMI in.

Barry J. Anwender · March 27th, 2011, 12:41 PM

The F3 with the 4:4:4 RGB option will use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output to feed the Gemini. The existing HDMI spec is not capable of supporting Dual-Link HD-SDI throughput. Cheers!

Adam Stanislav · March 27th, 2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wood

Moot point - Gemini does not have HDMI in.

So? Just place a small HDMI to SDI converter between the camera and the Gemini.

Simon Wood · March 27th, 2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Stanislav

So? Just place a small HDMI to SDI converter between the camera and the Gemini.

I guess. Most of them would be in the region of +/- $500, plus its an extra box to try and attach to your rig, but yeah it would work no doubt.

Ken Hull · March 27th, 2011, 05:43 PM

Thanks for the responses guys!

There's still something I'm not clear on. Does the HD-SDI connection need to be dual-link, in order to do 4:4:4?

Ken

Dave Sperling · March 27th, 2011, 06:30 PM

The way I understand it, you should also be able to get 4:4:4 from a 3G-SDI signal. I'm not clear on whether the Gemini will record two simultaneous 3G signals, or just 2 HD-SDI / or one 3G. Perhaps Dan could chime in?

Mike Schell · March 27th, 2011, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Sperling

The way I understand it, you should also be able to get 4:4:4 from a 3G-SDI signal. I'm not clear on whether the Gemini will record two simultaneous 3G signals, or just 2 HD-SDI / or one 3G. Perhaps Dan could chime in?

Hi Dave-
Gemini can record 4:4:4 as a dual link or single link 3G signal. Gemini can support dual 3G 4:4:4 inputs of 1080p24 and 1080p25. We are still testing dual 1080p30 4:4:4. Single or dual 1080p50/60 4:4:4 is simply not possible (bandwidth too high for the SSDs).

Dual stream recording does require the extra-cost 3D upgrade (US $1995).

Dave Sperling · March 27th, 2011, 10:12 PM

Mike,
Thanks for the clarification.
VERY IMPRESSIVE !!!!!

Rafael Amador · March 28th, 2011, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender

The F3 with the 4:4:4 RGB option will use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output to feed the Gemini. The existing HDMI spec is not capable of supporting Dual-Link HD-SDI throughput. Cheers!

HDMI 1.3, supports much higher data rate (10Gbps) than Double-link.
rafael

Peter Moretti · March 28th, 2011, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender

The F3 with the 4:4:4 RGB option will use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output to feed the Gemini. The existing HDMI spec is not capable of supporting Dual-Link HD-SDI throughput. Cheers!

I actually think the current HDMI spec, 1.4, is very capable of carrying 4:4:4.

Barry J. Anwender · March 28th, 2011, 08:55 AM

Peter, I stand corrected. The HDMI spec has evolved and continues to adapt to work with 4K and 3D signals. Unfortunately, so do the connectors types that are required to support these higher data rates. Wikipedia has a good summary on the HDMI evolution and I have attached a graphic showing the 5 types of HDMI connectors.

For field work, the SDI standards and BNC connector would be the preferred connector for reliably transferring high data rates off a camera and into a portable recorder.

Dan Keaton · March 28th, 2011, 03:37 PM

Dear Ken,

While the name of our new recorder is Gemini 4:4:4, it will also record from 4:2:2 cameras.

Lance Librandi · March 29th, 2011, 12:33 AM

Hi Dan & Mike,
Well I have to say I am a contender for the Gemini 4:4:4 for the past 12 months I have been working all my projects in uncompressed. With the addition of the Gemini I should be able to save 9-10 hours on my project because I will no longer be undertaking long rendering times. Having recently upgrade to the Tricaster to TXCD850 it will be interesting to see the quality of the recording to the Gemini. Will your dealer in Australia have a demo unit as I really will need to see the quality of the screen and the costing of the SSD drives.

Cheers
Lance

March 27th, 2011, 12:17 PM	#1
Ken Hull Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 240	4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? Are there any "affordable" camcorders/cameras that output 4:4:4 for the Gemini to record? (By affordable, I mean something under $30K.) Also, I assume that that the HD/SDI connector must be used for 4:4:4, or can HDMI output that? Ken

March 27th, 2011, 12:25 PM	#2
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? The Sony F3 will have a 4;4:4 output.

March 27th, 2011, 12:41 PM	#4
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? The F3 with the 4:4:4 RGB option will use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output to feed the Gemini. The existing HDMI spec is not capable of supporting Dual-Link HD-SDI throughput. Cheers!

March 27th, 2011, 05:43 PM	#7
Ken Hull Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 240	Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? Thanks for the responses guys! There's still something I'm not clear on. Does the HD-SDI connection need to be dual-link, in order to do 4:4:4? Ken

March 27th, 2011, 06:30 PM	#8
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? The way I understand it, you should also be able to get 4:4:4 from a 3G-SDI signal. I'm not clear on whether the Gemini will record two simultaneous 3G signals, or just 2 HD-SDI / or one 3G. Perhaps Dan could chime in?

March 27th, 2011, 10:12 PM	#10
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? Mike, Thanks for the clarification. VERY IMPRESSIVE !!!!!

March 28th, 2011, 08:55 AM	#13
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? Peter, I stand corrected. The HDMI spec has evolved and continues to adapt to work with 4K and 3D signals. Unfortunately, so do the connectors types that are required to support these higher data rates. Wikipedia has a good summary on the HDMI evolution and I have attached a graphic showing the 5 types of HDMI connectors. For field work, the SDI standards and BNC connector would be the preferred connector for reliably transferring high data rates off a camera and into a portable recorder. Attached Thumbnails

March 28th, 2011, 03:37 PM	#14
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? Dear Ken, While the name of our new recorder is Gemini 4:4:4, it will also record from 4:2:2 cameras. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

March 29th, 2011, 12:33 AM	#15
Lance Librandi Major Player Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: South Australia Posts: 374	Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini? Hi Dan & Mike, Well I have to say I am a contender for the Gemini 4:4:4 for the past 12 months I have been working all my projects in uncompressed. With the addition of the Gemini I should be able to save 9-10 hours on my project because I will no longer be undertaking long rendering times. Having recently upgrade to the Tricaster to TXCD850 it will be interesting to see the quality of the recording to the Gemini. Will your dealer in Australia have a demo unit as I really will need to see the quality of the screen and the costing of the SSD drives. Cheers Lance