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Old March 27th, 2011, 01:17 PM   #1
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4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

Are there any "affordable" camcorders/cameras that output 4:4:4 for the Gemini to record? (By affordable, I mean something under $30K.)

Also, I assume that that the HD/SDI connector must be used for 4:4:4, or can HDMI output that?

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Old March 27th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #2
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

The Sony F3 will have a 4;4:4 output.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #3
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Hull View Post

Also, I assume that that the HD/SDI connector must be used for 4:4:4, or can HDMI output that?

Ken
Moot point - Gemini does not have HDMI in.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #4
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

The F3 with the 4:4:4 RGB option will use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output to feed the Gemini. The existing HDMI spec is not capable of supporting Dual-Link HD-SDI throughput. Cheers!
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Old March 27th, 2011, 02:44 PM   #5
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

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Moot point - Gemini does not have HDMI in.
So? Just place a small HDMI to SDI converter between the camera and the Gemini.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 04:10 PM   #6
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

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So? Just place a small HDMI to SDI converter between the camera and the Gemini.
I guess. Most of them would be in the region of +/- $500, plus its an extra box to try and attach to your rig, but yeah it would work no doubt.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 06:43 PM   #7
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

Thanks for the responses guys!

There's still something I'm not clear on. Does the HD-SDI connection need to be dual-link, in order to do 4:4:4?

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Old March 27th, 2011, 07:30 PM   #8
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

The way I understand it, you should also be able to get 4:4:4 from a 3G-SDI signal. I'm not clear on whether the Gemini will record two simultaneous 3G signals, or just 2 HD-SDI / or one 3G. Perhaps Dan could chime in?
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Old March 27th, 2011, 10:22 PM   #9
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

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Originally Posted by Dave Sperling View Post
The way I understand it, you should also be able to get 4:4:4 from a 3G-SDI signal. I'm not clear on whether the Gemini will record two simultaneous 3G signals, or just 2 HD-SDI / or one 3G. Perhaps Dan could chime in?
Hi Dave-
Gemini can record 4:4:4 as a dual link or single link 3G signal. Gemini can support dual 3G 4:4:4 inputs of 1080p24 and 1080p25. We are still testing dual 1080p30 4:4:4. Single or dual 1080p50/60 4:4:4 is simply not possible (bandwidth too high for the SSDs).

Dual stream recording does require the extra-cost 3D upgrade (US $1995).
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Old March 27th, 2011, 11:12 PM   #10
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

Mike,
Thanks for the clarification.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 05:37 AM   #11
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

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Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender View Post
The F3 with the 4:4:4 RGB option will use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output to feed the Gemini. The existing HDMI spec is not capable of supporting Dual-Link HD-SDI throughput. Cheers!
HDMI 1.3, supports much higher data rate (10Gbps) than Double-link.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 06:22 AM   #12
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

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Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender View Post
The F3 with the 4:4:4 RGB option will use the Dual-Link HD-SDI output to feed the Gemini. The existing HDMI spec is not capable of supporting Dual-Link HD-SDI throughput. Cheers!
I actually think the current HDMI spec, 1.4, is very capable of carrying 4:4:4.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 09:55 AM   #13
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

Peter, I stand corrected. The HDMI spec has evolved and continues to adapt to work with 4K and 3D signals. Unfortunately, so do the connectors types that are required to support these higher data rates. Wikipedia has a good summary on the HDMI evolution and I have attached a graphic showing the 5 types of HDMI connectors.

For field work, the SDI standards and BNC connector would be the preferred connector for reliably transferring high data rates off a camera and into a portable recorder.
Attached Thumbnails
4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?-hdmi-evolution.jpg  
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Old March 28th, 2011, 04:37 PM   #14
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

Dear Ken,

While the name of our new recorder is Gemini 4:4:4, it will also record from 4:2:2 cameras.
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Old March 29th, 2011, 01:33 AM   #15
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Re: 4:4:4 camcorders for Gemini?

Hi Dan & Mike,
Well I have to say I am a contender for the Gemini 4:4:4 for the past 12 months I have been working all my projects in uncompressed. With the addition of the Gemini I should be able to save 9-10 hours on my project because I will no longer be undertaking long rendering times. Having recently upgrade to the Tricaster to TXCD850 it will be interesting to see the quality of the recording to the Gemini. Will your dealer in Australia have a demo unit as I really will need to see the quality of the screen and the costing of the SSD drives.

Cheers
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