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Old April 24th, 2011, 07:26 AM   #1
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Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Not sure if this is the right place, but I just give it a try.

I shoot .mov with my nano, camera EX3 setting at 1080p. So clip dimensions are 1920x1080. When opened in Quicktime, this is also the info it shows about the dimensions of the clip.

My computer screen is 1920x1200 (Eizo CG243W). So when opening a clip at actual size it should use the full width of the screen, since clip and screen are both 1920 pixels wide. However, the width of the clip is always a bit smaller than the width of the screen. Hard to determine how much, but I would say some 30 pixels. Why is that?
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Old April 24th, 2011, 08:29 AM   #2
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Dear Cees,

I can confirm that the nanoFlash actually records 1920 x 1080.

Your issue relates to the software that you are using "Quicktime" or the operating system/computer platform that you are using.
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Old April 24th, 2011, 09:11 AM   #3
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Thanks Dan. I was sure that the frame dimensions are right. Wonder what the 'platform' issue then could be, since I notice it when using the 'ordinary' Quicktime Player that came with my only 3 month old, brand new, 8-core Mac Pro. If someone knows, please tell.....
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Old April 24th, 2011, 09:45 AM   #4
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Dear Cees,

Do you have Final Cut Pro?

What happens in Final Cut Pro?
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Old April 24th, 2011, 10:20 AM   #5
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees van Kempen View Post
Why is that?
Maybe your player? I would definitely try playing it in VLC and see how it looks in its full screen mode before trying to figure what else may be wrong.
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Old April 24th, 2011, 01:17 PM   #6
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Adam,

Thanks for the suggestion, will give it a try. However playing it at full screen will not show the answer. if I play it at full screen in Quicktime player it does use the full screen. The surprise is when I play it in mode 'actual size', which should be full screen (since bothe are 1920 wide), but is just a bit smaller.

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Old April 24th, 2011, 01:22 PM   #7
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Keaton View Post
Dear Cees,

Do you have Final Cut Pro?

What happens in Final Cut Pro?
Dear Dan,

I do have FCP and just ran some test.

If I export as ProRes 422 the export file covers the full width of the screen when played with Quicktime Player
If I export Uncompressed the export file covers the full width of the screen when played with Quicktime Player
If I export as XD Cam 422 the export file does not covers the full width of the screen when played with Quicktime Player

The info about the dimensions is the same for each of the three export files: 1920x1080.

It seems there is nothing wrong with the size of the files, but that Quicktime Player is not properly handling the XD Cam 422 files ??

Cees
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Old April 24th, 2011, 01:26 PM   #8
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

This got my interest so I played a full 1920x1080 clip on my one of my Dell 2408WFP Ultrasharps (16:10 display set as normal to 1.1 pixel resolution, i.e. no scaling) using the VLC player and sure enough there is a very narrow black band (maybe 2-3mm) at either side - as well as the expected thicker black bars top and bottom. Tried it with WMP 11 - same result. I did not try it with QT7 as it is a 50p clip and the Windows 7, i7 box I'm on right now struggles big time with that frame rate (when using anything other than the excellent VLC player).

Yet when I switch to general web viewing etc. (which displays using the full 16:10 area, ie, 1920x1200 pixels) I see no tiny black borders at the sides - it goes right up to the edge of the display using the full 1920p width.

Curious? Never noticed this before...
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Old April 24th, 2011, 01:51 PM   #9
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Are you displaying "Full Screen" (Cmd-F)?
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Old April 24th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #10
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees van Kempen View Post
Dear Dan,

I do have FCP and just ran some test.

If I export as ProRes 422 the export file covers the full width of the screen when played with Quicktime Player
If I export Uncompressed the export file covers the full width of the screen when played with Quicktime Player
If I export as XD Cam 422 the export file does not covers the full width of the screen when played with Quicktime Player

The info about the dimensions is the same for each of the three export files: 1920x1080.

It seems there is nothing wrong with the size of the files, but that Quicktime Player is not properly handling the XD Cam 422 files ??

Cees
The way I'm reading your test results, it sounds like there might be an issue with the way FCP is creating the XDcam422 files, placing black bars on the sides?
Have you taken a critical look at the various outputs created to verify whether the entire horizontal image created in uncompressed mode is also created in XDcam422 mode? / or are a few pixels of picture width replaced by black in the FCP XDcam422 output?
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Old April 25th, 2011, 05:16 AM   #11
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafael Amador View Post
Are you displaying "Full Screen" (Cmd-F)?
rafael
Dear Rafael,

Displaying Full screen does not solve the question, because if you play full screen it will fill the whole screen, no matter the actual size of the clip. It should use the full screen when playing "actual size".

Cees
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Old April 25th, 2011, 05:30 AM   #12
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Sperling View Post
The way I'm reading your test results, it sounds like there might be an issue with the way FCP is creating the XDcam422 files, placing black bars on the sides?
Have you taken a critical look at the various outputs created to verify whether the entire horizontal image created in uncompressed mode is also created in XDcam422 mode? / or are a few pixels of picture width replaced by black in the FCP XDcam422 output?
Dear Dave,

FCP is not placing black bars on the sides. In my opinion it has nothing to do with FCP. Quicktime Player playing the clip in 'actual size' shows it in a slightly smaller window than the 1920 width. There's no black bars, just a smaller window. This is already the case with the .mov files straight from the nano, so before FCP comes in. So 'actual size' according to Quicktime7 is less than 1920 wide, when it is a XDcam 422 clip. I am quite sure it is not the clip, but QT7 dealing with XDCam 422 that behaves weird. Strange though.

Seemes like Andy is experiencing the same. Was this also a XDCam 422 clip, Andy?

Cees
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Old April 25th, 2011, 06:28 AM   #13
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

All this is the famous APERTURE history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees van Kempen View Post
Displaying Full screen does not solve the question, because if you play full screen it will fill the whole screen, no matter the actual size of the clip. It should use the full screen when playing "actual size".
You are right Cess, I meant Full-Screen 1:1, that's: Com-F Com-1.
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Old April 25th, 2011, 06:57 AM   #14
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Hi Cees,

That was an ex Panasonic TM900 1920x1080p 28Mbps clip on my 2010 Dell Windows 7, 64 bit i7 box.

Today I'm on my Mac Pro and have just tried a range of my Full HD clips (XDCAM EX3, ProRes422, MVI ex Canon 7D etc.) and they all display as one would expect, i.e. right up to the very edge of the 1920x1200p screens I have (I have two identical screens, both Dell 24-inch and both display in exactly the same, correct, way - I just checked). Using QuickTime 7 to play these today.

Seems like (for me) it is something to do with viewing clips on my Windows box that results in (me) getting these very narrow black bars down the side - like you are describing in your set-up. I was using WMP11 or VLC Player when I saw this the other day. The WMP11 is, as far as I'm aware, fully up to date and the VLC version is one before the latest update - next time I fire up the Windows 7 box I'll update it - but I don't expect that to change anything regarding this. Doesn't really worry me but it sure is very strange?!?!
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Old April 25th, 2011, 09:21 AM   #15
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Re: Actual frame dimensions at 1080p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees van Kempen View Post
if I play it at full screen in Quicktime player it does use the full screen. The surprise is when I play it in mode 'actual size', which should be full screen (since bothe are 1920 wide), but is just a bit smaller.
But VLC will show you whether the video is correct and the QT player is adding the black border, or whether the video is smaller. In the full screen mode, VLC gives you the option to play unscaled, so it does not stretch the video in any way (right click, select Video and uncheck Scale if it is checked, and also right click, select Video / Zoom / Original 1:1). So, if the video is smaller than 1920, you will see that immediately.

Additionally, VLC allows you to check the exact dimensions of the video. While playing the video, click Ctl-I (capital i, not one), then select codec information, and it will show you the dimensions (among other things).

VLC is a very powerful tool, while the QT player always tries to be fancy.
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