Slate number at DVinfo.net

Ron Aerts · September 2nd, 2014, 01:40 PM

Is it possible to implement the slate numbers into the metadata or filenames? i requested this before but until now we only have
Clip Number
Reel Number
Scene Number
Take Number
Shooting Day
Camera Number
Project Name

The slate is really important in feature filming. It should be between 'scene' and 'take'
as within a scene jou can have different slates and then an easily accessable slate increase function (like a double tap on a specific area) should reset the take to 001.
In the same scene of the script, you can have different positions/angels and lenses. These are numbered in slates. The takes are always with the same position/angle/lens.
The slates are numbered chronological and will need at least 4 digits.

Per example: you start at day 1 for scene 38. you shoot your master/establishing wide, a medium 2 shot, a face 1 close and overshoulder face 2 close. So you have 4 slates from scene 38 and, depending on the actor/camoperator talent, several takes within each slate.
On top of that, day 1 can be over midnight so the date can differ from shooting day...

I would love to see this function in the new firmware.

Dan Keaton · September 3rd, 2014, 06:41 AM

Dear Ron,

I will discuss your requests with our engineers.

We automatically increment the Take Number, every time the Odyssey / Camera goes into record.

I assume that we should not automatically increment the Slate Number.

Is it important to you for this new field be placed between the Scene and Take Number?

Respectfully,

Ron Aerts · September 3rd, 2014, 07:22 AM

thnx for the reply
I think it would be the logical place between scene and take
auto take increase is ok with me. Maybe even better if there was an additional checkbox "auto take increase" (default on)
The slate number should be easy accessible. I let you guys think about the best solution for this. Just not too much clicks and sweaty fingertips to get there...

I also want to suggest an auto file naming function in which the user can choose the buildup (and order) for the filenames
example: <slate>_ <take> (gives 0123_020) or <scene>_<slate>_<cam>_<take> (gives 076_0123_A_020)
important is that the number of digits is the same as in the metadata because the leading zero(s) are needed to get things chronologically organised.

Maybe users can give some feedback on this 2nd idea

Dan Keaton · September 5th, 2014, 05:38 PM

Dear Ron,

I discussed your suggestions with our engineers.

Before we came up with this list of metadata, I spoke with many industry professionals.

Please note that our Scene Number field is actually alphanumeric and is 8 characters long.

This allows you to have a Scene Number, plus extra alpha character for the Slate identifier.

Thus, Scene 32 can be Scene 32A.

You can dress this up any way you wish, such as 32-A.

We are also looking into your other suggestion for building the filename.

Respectfully,

Ron Aerts · September 6th, 2014, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Dear Ron,

I discussed your suggestions with our engineers.

Before we came up with this list of metadata, I spoke with many industry professionals.

Please note that our Scene Number field is actually alphanumeric and is 8 characters long.

This allows you to have a Scene Number, plus extra alpha character for the Slate identifier.

Thus, Scene 32 can be Scene 32A.

You can dress this up any way you wish, such as 32-A.

We are also looking into your other suggestion for building the filename.

Respectfully,

Dan, sorry to be a bit annoying.

Apparently you spoke the wrong people or missed one of the most important parameters in logging for movie industry, ask any 1st AD. (At least here in europe)
Look here: Movie★Slate > The App
As you see in the upper right corner, where one is supposed to start reading: slate number!
It is important to have this as a separate parameter because all parties during moviemaking relate to that number. Additions to the scene number is not an option because this can be reserved to subsequential scenestuff.
For editors slate numbers are more efficient i suppose

So I will hold on to my request...
Aren't there other readers who can back me up here?

Dan Keaton · September 7th, 2014, 08:17 AM

Dear Ron,

I feel that the way it is done in Europe may be different.

I checked with many industry experts in New York City, Hollywood, and Burbank, but not Europe, sorry.
I routinely speak with people from all over the world.

And I just checked with another expert, and Slate Number is not in common use in the United States.

Of course, we attempt to design equipment that is useful world-wide.

I just checked all of the manual and electronic slates on B&H's website, and I found only one, that had Slate Number.

The one I found had Scene, Slate, Take

Most have Roll, Scene, Take.

We have a field named Reel but it can be used for any four digit alphanumeric value, included Roll or Slate Number.

Our fields are:

Clip

Reel

Scene

Take

Day (Shooting Day) (We automatically record the Month, Day, Year, and starting Time of the clip.

Camera

Project

Ron, are you using our Reel field? Could you use this for your Slate Number?

Respectfully,

Dave Sperling · September 7th, 2014, 08:24 AM

Hello Ron,
Here in the states, my personal experience was that the only time we used slate #s was on documentary shooting where we didn't assign scene #s.
It may well be different in Europe, but for the last couple of episodic TV series as well as features I've shot, the script person would give the assistant a scene # which would be (as Dan indicated) a combination of the actual scene number and an incrementing letter that would change for each setup. Thus scene 32 on the slate would be the first setup, followed by 32A, 32B, 32C, etc. When you run out of single letters, the cycle continues with 32AA, 32AB, etc. Obviously these are combined with the take number when creating the selects list. The script person would use these combination scene #s in creating their line script for the editor.
Of course to avoid confusion, added scenes would use a letter before the scene number - so an added scene might be A32 -- thus the setups would be A32, A32A, A32B, etc.
The issue with adding one more thing to change every take is that it becomes one more thing for the assistant to deal with - even if it only takes a few seconds each time - and one more thing to go out of sequence when the Director/AD are yelling 'let's roll, let's roll' while the assistant is busy taking revised focus measurements. Now if there were an easy way for the script supervisor to input all the data remotely over bluetooth....

Ron Aerts · September 8th, 2014, 12:45 AM

I think it is an european thing. Slate is commonly used here. Since in digital age you don't have physical reels, this is an unused field. However there might be accompaning software that could be using the reel field for identifying purposes, and things could get confusing.
Sure i can use the reel field for slate numbers.
Conveniant would be to have a preferences function that just changes the name of this field to 'take'
Maybe when this is functional add a "-" and "+" symbol box in the menu where changes in metadata are made or even a faster shortcut (f-buttons?)
Is it possible to have larger buttons (you must be concentrated to hit the small areas and moistures fingers can sometimes cause misalignment)

Dan Keaton · September 8th, 2014, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Aerts

Sure i can use the reel field for slate numbers.
Conveniant would be to have a preferences function that just changes the name of this field to 'take'

Dear Ron,

I am confused. Did you mean "Slate" instead of "Take" in your post?

My best guess is that you wanted to change the "Reel" field to "Slate".

Background:

Our Scene Number and Take Fields are related and work together.

If you change the Scene Number, we automatically reset the Take Number to 001.

After each clip that the unit records, the Take Number is incremented automatically by 1.

And if you want to change the Take Number manually, we have a way to increment or decrease the Take Number using Up and Down buttons.
But since this is done automatically these are not normally used.

Quote:

Maybe when this is functional add a "-" and "+" symbol box in the menu where changes in metadata are made or even a faster shortcut (f-buttons?)

For the fields that are numeric only, we have the "+" and "-" buttons, but for the alphanumeric fields, we have a keyboard layout and do not currently have the "+" and "-" buttons.

Are you requesting that we add these "+" and "-" buttons to our current Reel Number or a different field?

Quote:

Is it possible to have larger buttons (you must be concentrated to hit the small areas and moistures fingers can sometimes cause misalignment)

Yes, we can improve this.

Respectfully,

Ron Aerts · September 8th, 2014, 11:10 PM

Sorry Dan, I ment 'slate' in stead of 'take'. Must be very confusing, my mistake. I shall be more accurate.
The point is that in "European style" (I started to call it this way) we need the take-field to reset when the slate-field increases. That won't happen if I use the reel-field.
Here's a suggestion: in the preferences a choise of metadata style => european or documantary or hollywood... Have to think about the names. What do they do in Asia?

September 2nd, 2014, 01:40 PM	#1
Ron Aerts Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Drachten, Netherlands Posts: 179	Slate number Is it possible to implement the slate numbers into the metadata or filenames? i requested this before but until now we only have Clip Number Reel Number Scene Number Take Number Shooting Day Camera Number Project Name The slate is really important in feature filming. It should be between 'scene' and 'take' as within a scene jou can have different slates and then an easily accessable slate increase function (like a double tap on a specific area) should reset the take to 001. In the same scene of the script, you can have different positions/angels and lenses. These are numbered in slates. The takes are always with the same position/angle/lens. The slates are numbered chronological and will need at least 4 digits. Per example: you start at day 1 for scene 38. you shoot your master/establishing wide, a medium 2 shot, a face 1 close and overshoulder face 2 close. So you have 4 slates from scene 38 and, depending on the actor/camoperator talent, several takes within each slate. On top of that, day 1 can be over midnight so the date can differ from shooting day... I would love to see this function in the new firmware.

September 3rd, 2014, 06:41 AM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Re: Slate number Dear Ron, I will discuss your requests with our engineers. We automatically increment the Take Number, every time the Odyssey / Camera goes into record. I assume that we should not automatically increment the Slate Number. Is it important to you for this new field be placed between the Scene and Take Number? Respectfully, __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 3rd, 2014, 07:22 AM	#3
Ron Aerts Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Drachten, Netherlands Posts: 179	Re: Slate number thnx for the reply I think it would be the logical place between scene and take auto take increase is ok with me. Maybe even better if there was an additional checkbox "auto take increase" (default on) The slate number should be easy accessible. I let you guys think about the best solution for this. Just not too much clicks and sweaty fingertips to get there... I also want to suggest an auto file naming function in which the user can choose the buildup (and order) for the filenames example: <slate>_ <take> (gives 0123_020) or <scene>_<slate>_<cam>_<take> (gives 076_0123_A_020) important is that the number of digits is the same as in the metadata because the leading zero(s) are needed to get things chronologically organised. Maybe users can give some feedback on this 2nd idea

September 5th, 2014, 05:38 PM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Re: Slate number Dear Ron, I discussed your suggestions with our engineers. Before we came up with this list of metadata, I spoke with many industry professionals. Please note that our Scene Number field is actually alphanumeric and is 8 characters long. This allows you to have a Scene Number, plus extra alpha character for the Slate identifier. Thus, Scene 32 can be Scene 32A. You can dress this up any way you wish, such as 32-A. We are also looking into your other suggestion for building the filename. Respectfully, __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 7th, 2014, 08:17 AM	#6
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Re: Slate number Dear Ron, I feel that the way it is done in Europe may be different. I checked with many industry experts in New York City, Hollywood, and Burbank, but not Europe, sorry. I routinely speak with people from all over the world. And I just checked with another expert, and Slate Number is not in common use in the United States. Of course, we attempt to design equipment that is useful world-wide. I just checked all of the manual and electronic slates on B&H's website, and I found only one, that had Slate Number. The one I found had Scene, Slate, Take Most have Roll, Scene, Take. We have a field named Reel but it can be used for any four digit alphanumeric value, included Roll or Slate Number. Our fields are: Clip Reel Scene Take Day (Shooting Day) (We automatically record the Month, Day, Year, and starting Time of the clip. Camera Project Ron, are you using our Reel field? Could you use this for your Slate Number? Respectfully, __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

September 7th, 2014, 08:24 AM	#7
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: Slate number Hello Ron, Here in the states, my personal experience was that the only time we used slate #s was on documentary shooting where we didn't assign scene #s. It may well be different in Europe, but for the last couple of episodic TV series as well as features I've shot, the script person would give the assistant a scene # which would be (as Dan indicated) a combination of the actual scene number and an incrementing letter that would change for each setup. Thus scene 32 on the slate would be the first setup, followed by 32A, 32B, 32C, etc. When you run out of single letters, the cycle continues with 32AA, 32AB, etc. Obviously these are combined with the take number when creating the selects list. The script person would use these combination scene #s in creating their line script for the editor. Of course to avoid confusion, added scenes would use a letter before the scene number - so an added scene might be A32 -- thus the setups would be A32, A32A, A32B, etc. The issue with adding one more thing to change every take is that it becomes one more thing for the assistant to deal with - even if it only takes a few seconds each time - and one more thing to go out of sequence when the Director/AD are yelling 'let's roll, let's roll' while the assistant is busy taking revised focus measurements. Now if there were an easy way for the script supervisor to input all the data remotely over bluetooth....

September 8th, 2014, 12:45 AM	#8
Ron Aerts Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Drachten, Netherlands Posts: 179	Re: Slate number I think it is an european thing. Slate is commonly used here. Since in digital age you don't have physical reels, this is an unused field. However there might be accompaning software that could be using the reel field for identifying purposes, and things could get confusing. Sure i can use the reel field for slate numbers. Conveniant would be to have a preferences function that just changes the name of this field to 'take' Maybe when this is functional add a "-" and "+" symbol box in the menu where changes in metadata are made or even a faster shortcut (f-buttons?) Is it possible to have larger buttons (you must be concentrated to hit the small areas and moistures fingers can sometimes cause misalignment)

September 8th, 2014, 11:10 PM	#10
Ron Aerts Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Drachten, Netherlands Posts: 179	Re: Slate number Sorry Dan, I ment 'slate' in stead of 'take'. Must be very confusing, my mistake. I shall be more accurate. The point is that in "European style" (I started to call it this way) we need the take-field to reset when the slate-field increases. That won't happen if I use the reel-field. Here's a suggestion: in the preferences a choise of metadata style => european or documantary or hollywood... Have to think about the names. What do they do in Asia?