HDLink Pro Displayport 3D and Stereo 3D Toolbox?? at DVinfo.net

Bruce Schultz · May 6th, 2010, 03:05 PM

I guess this is a message to Tim Dashwood.

How or will this BlackMagic Designs Blackmagic Design: HDLink Specs converter work with a Stereo 3D Toolbox output(s)? I am using a BlackMagic PCIE Decklink to output side/side and anaglyph over HDMI to a non-3D HDTV monitor now, so with the addition of a 3D monitor will the outputs from FCP/Stereo 3D Toolbox work running through this B-M converter? If so, which modes?

Also, I noticed talking to you at NAB that you were supporting more 3D HDTV's and computer monitors. Can you list those here, and do you need the NVidia 3D cards for computer display?

Tim Dashwood · May 8th, 2010, 01:38 AM

We don't know much about the new Blackmagic products because they haven't shipped yet and we don't have them.

There were two "3D" products announced by Blackmagic-Design at NAB: Decklink HD Extreme 3D and the HDLink Pro 3D Displayport.

In the Blackmagic booth at NAB they had the Decklink HD Extreme 3D card playing back two HD-SDI streams from Media Express (on Windows I think) and feeding the HDLink Pro 3D Displayport connected to a 3D display.

We have a few ideas on how to implement these new products into a 3D workflow, but the details on ingest and playback are sketchy from BD's website right now.

I can tell you that I will definitely be buying a few HDLink 3D Displayport boxes with $30 Displayport to HDMI adapters. That's $525 each versus Stereobrain's $6000.

Bruce Schultz · May 8th, 2010, 10:13 AM

Thanks Tim, that's pretty much what I was thinking. If the B-M 3D Displayport replicates the Inition Stereobrain box then that's a very cost effective solution to 3D monitoring.

Robert Kennedy · May 31st, 2010, 11:19 AM

From BMD's specs page it look like HD Link Pro 3D Displayport only does 48-75 hz.. Does that mean it can't make full use of 3d-ready 120hz monitors?
It also is lacking a sync output and therefore may not prove useful for those with active shutter glasses.\Just a couple thoughts.
-Robert

Kristian Lam · July 5th, 2010, 06:46 AM

Hi,

HDLink Pro 3D will support the new HDMI 1.4 monitors and deliver a frame packed HDMI 1.4 signal. We're not finished with the firmware yet but we're getting there :)

Steve Shovlar · July 5th, 2010, 08:44 AM

Sounds fantastic! I am looking forward to when this is a reality. Please keep us informed.

Alexander Voz · July 12th, 2010, 06:24 AM

If anyone is going to look at BlackMagic HDLink Pro 3D for 3d monitoring purposes, please bear in mind that it cannot take two separate HD-SDI feeds and mux them together, it requires a muxed input (either full-frame side-by-side via two cables (dual-link HD-SDI) or squeezed half-frame. So essentially HDLink Pro is a glorifed HD-SDI to DisplayPort/HDMI converter and audio de-embedder. We actually bought one and messed with it for a while before realising our mistake.

This has been my experience. If this is wrong, however, I stand to be corrected.

Tim Dashwood · July 12th, 2010, 06:54 AM

Actually it does take two HD-SDI and mux them together and output a HD-SDI and Displayport in line by line, frame-packed or side-by-side output. I don't think they are shipping yet.

Kristian Lam · July 12th, 2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander Voz

If anyone is going to look at BlackMagic HDLink Pro 3D for 3d monitoring purposes, please bear in mind that it cannot take two separate HD-SDI feeds and mux them together, it requires a muxed input (either full-frame side-by-side via two cables (dual-link HD-SDI) or squeezed half-frame. So essentially HDLink Pro is a glorifed HD-SDI to DisplayPort/HDMI converter and audio de-embedder. We actually bought one and messed with it for a while before realising our mistake.

This has been my experience. If this is wrong, however, I stand to be corrected.

If you have the HDLink Pro DisplayPort model, you'll need a firmware update to get the 3D capability. We're not finished with the firmware yet but should be ready in the next 1-2 weeks. If you want to try something, contact me directly and I can send you a download link.

Tim Dashwood · July 19th, 2010, 01:12 AM

I'm happy to report that I just updated my HDLink DisplayPort to version3.4 (downloadable from the Blackmagic Design website) and I now have 3D modes! I just tested it on side by side and over/under.

Steve Shovlar · July 19th, 2010, 03:17 AM

OK having visited the BMD website to say I am confused is an understatement. They certainly don't write their information for the layman. Great for folks that understand all this but for someone reasonably new to this side of the business it goes quite a way above my head. I am sure BMD lose sales because they don't have a simple description of what it actually does and that frightens people away because they don't want to order something that is no use to them.

So what does it do in clear simple terms?

If I use Tim's software, then save the 3D file, (not sure in what codec) can I play it out through this BMD 3D box to watch it on my Sony 3D TV? My PC or Mac doesn't have SDI out, so know what? How do I get the footage from the Mac or PC into the box to come out again via HDMI? Do I have to buy a card with SDI out to fit in the PC/Mac?

Or do I need this at all to show 3D on my Sony 3D TV direct from my PC/Mac to clients? I want to show the best quality on the 3DTV.

So I am confused. Have I made this more complicated than I should?
Thanks
Steve

Tim Dashwood · July 19th, 2010, 08:21 PM

The 3D features on this box can be used in a few different ways.

1. Mux two camera inputs into a single stream 3D format for digitizing via HD-SDI (with a capture card)

2. Mux two camera inputs into a single stream 3D format for monitoring on a 3D monitor that accepts HD-SDI side by side, top/bottom or line by line or HDMI 1.4a (coming soon.)

3. Both 1 & 2 simultaneously

4. Mux two i/o card outputs (i.e. Extreme 3D) into a 3D format for monitoring.

I am field testing it tomorrow on a concert shoot with a dual EX3 beamsplitter and a couple Panasonic cams. It definitely doesn't run anywhere near as hot as the Stereobrain in my studio tests.

Arnaud Paris · July 21st, 2010, 04:30 AM

Tim,

Thanks for sharing all this info with us.

When you say that the HDMI 1.4 side by side output is soon to be working, does that mean that right now you can't plug two cameras in HD-SDI into the unit and have a live feed going to let's say a Panasonic Plasma 3D TV? I thought that this option was already activated in the latest firmware?

Arnaud

Kristian Lam · July 21st, 2010, 06:40 AM

Hi,

It will work with the Panasonic TV as long as it supports the side by side option via HDMI 1.3 which is half the resolution of each eye.

HDMI 1.4 sends out a frame packed signal which is the full resolution of each eye. This feature will be available in a driver update for HDLink Pro 3D.

Pavel Houda · July 21st, 2010, 08:45 AM

The frame packed material will be used by Blu-ray. It is too much for broadcast to deal with. They will be using squeezed side-by-side and above-below, so the 3D TV's will support those input methods as well. To my experience they also have manual menus to select the input mode. I have been able to play regular 2D BD's with sbs and a/b 3D on them created by Tim's Stereo3D Toolbox and burned with Toast and watch them in 3D on several different manufacturer's LCD sets, and with the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 on the DLPs, so I would be very surprised if the HD Link Pro 3D didn't work on just about any major manufacturer's 3DTV set.

Don't need MVC, HDMI 1.4 or 3D player (which will buy full res on both L/R frames) for sbs and a/u 3D streams. HDMI 1.4 and MVC compression is used by "real" 3D BD's that are made of unobtainium at the moment, with the exception of couple of demo's. That is where Adam helped me little while back.

May 6th, 2010, 03:05 PM	#1
Bruce Schultz Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Malibu, CA Posts: 480	HDLink Pro Displayport 3D and Stereo 3D Toolbox?? I guess this is a message to Tim Dashwood. How or will this BlackMagic Designs Blackmagic Design: HDLink Specs converter work with a Stereo 3D Toolbox output(s)? I am using a BlackMagic PCIE Decklink to output side/side and anaglyph over HDMI to a non-3D HDTV monitor now, so with the addition of a 3D monitor will the outputs from FCP/Stereo 3D Toolbox work running through this B-M converter? If so, which modes? Also, I noticed talking to you at NAB that you were supporting more 3D HDTV's and computer monitors. Can you list those here, and do you need the NVidia 3D cards for computer display?

May 8th, 2010, 01:38 AM	#2
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	We don't know much about the new Blackmagic products because they haven't shipped yet and we don't have them. There were two "3D" products announced by Blackmagic-Design at NAB: Decklink HD Extreme 3D and the HDLink Pro 3D Displayport. In the Blackmagic booth at NAB they had the Decklink HD Extreme 3D card playing back two HD-SDI streams from Media Express (on Windows I think) and feeding the HDLink Pro 3D Displayport connected to a 3D display. We have a few ideas on how to implement these new products into a 3D workflow, but the details on ingest and playback are sketchy from BD's website right now. I can tell you that I will definitely be buying a few HDLink 3D Displayport boxes with $30 Displayport to HDMI adapters. That's $525 each versus Stereobrain's $6000. __________________ Tim Dashwood

July 5th, 2010, 06:46 AM	#5
Kristian Lam Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 41	Hi, HDLink Pro 3D will support the new HDMI 1.4 monitors and deliver a frame packed HDMI 1.4 signal. We're not finished with the firmware yet but we're getting there :) __________________ Blackmagic Design

July 12th, 2010, 06:54 AM	#8
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Actually it does take two HD-SDI and mux them together and output a HD-SDI and Displayport in line by line, frame-packed or side-by-side output. I don't think they are shipping yet. __________________ Tim Dashwood

July 19th, 2010, 01:12 AM	#10
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	I'm happy to report that I just updated my HDLink DisplayPort to version3.4 (downloadable from the Blackmagic Design website) and I now have 3D modes! I just tested it on side by side and over/under. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Tim Dashwood

May 8th, 2010, 10:13 AM	#3
Bruce Schultz Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Malibu, CA Posts: 480	Thanks Tim, that's pretty much what I was thinking. If the B-M 3D Displayport replicates the Inition Stereobrain box then that's a very cost effective solution to 3D monitoring.

May 31st, 2010, 11:19 AM	#4
Robert Kennedy Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 62	From BMD's specs page it look like HD Link Pro 3D Displayport only does 48-75 hz.. Does that mean it can't make full use of 3d-ready 120hz monitors? It also is lacking a sync output and therefore may not prove useful for those with active shutter glasses.\Just a couple thoughts. -Robert

July 5th, 2010, 08:44 AM	#6
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	Sounds fantastic! I am looking forward to when this is a reality. Please keep us informed.

July 12th, 2010, 06:24 AM	#7
Alexander Voz Tourist Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sabi Sands Game Reserve, South Africa Posts: 1	If anyone is going to look at BlackMagic HDLink Pro 3D for 3d monitoring purposes, please bear in mind that it cannot take two separate HD-SDI feeds and mux them together, it requires a muxed input (either full-frame side-by-side via two cables (dual-link HD-SDI) or squeezed half-frame. So essentially HDLink Pro is a glorifed HD-SDI to DisplayPort/HDMI converter and audio de-embedder. We actually bought one and messed with it for a while before realising our mistake. This has been my experience. If this is wrong, however, I stand to be corrected.

July 19th, 2010, 03:17 AM	#11
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	OK having visited the BMD website to say I am confused is an understatement. They certainly don't write their information for the layman. Great for folks that understand all this but for someone reasonably new to this side of the business it goes quite a way above my head. I am sure BMD lose sales because they don't have a simple description of what it actually does and that frightens people away because they don't want to order something that is no use to them. So what does it do in clear simple terms? If I use Tim's software, then save the 3D file, (not sure in what codec) can I play it out through this BMD 3D box to watch it on my Sony 3D TV? My PC or Mac doesn't have SDI out, so know what? How do I get the footage from the Mac or PC into the box to come out again via HDMI? Do I have to buy a card with SDI out to fit in the PC/Mac? Or do I need this at all to show 3D on my Sony 3D TV direct from my PC/Mac to clients? I want to show the best quality on the 3DTV. So I am confused. Have I made this more complicated than I should? Thanks Steve

July 19th, 2010, 08:21 PM	#12
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	The 3D features on this box can be used in a few different ways. 1. Mux two camera inputs into a single stream 3D format for digitizing via HD-SDI (with a capture card) 2. Mux two camera inputs into a single stream 3D format for monitoring on a 3D monitor that accepts HD-SDI side by side, top/bottom or line by line or HDMI 1.4a (coming soon.) 3. Both 1 & 2 simultaneously 4. Mux two i/o card outputs (i.e. Extreme 3D) into a 3D format for monitoring. I am field testing it tomorrow on a concert shoot with a dual EX3 beamsplitter and a couple Panasonic cams. It definitely doesn't run anywhere near as hot as the Stereobrain in my studio tests. __________________ Tim Dashwood

July 21st, 2010, 04:30 AM	#13
Arnaud Paris New Boot Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 11	HDMI to Panasonic Plasma 3D TV Tim, Thanks for sharing all this info with us. When you say that the HDMI 1.4 side by side output is soon to be working, does that mean that right now you can't plug two cameras in HD-SDI into the unit and have a live feed going to let's say a Panasonic Plasma 3D TV? I thought that this option was already activated in the latest firmware? Arnaud

July 21st, 2010, 06:40 AM	#14
Kristian Lam Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 41	Hi, It will work with the Panasonic TV as long as it supports the side by side option via HDMI 1.3 which is half the resolution of each eye. HDMI 1.4 sends out a frame packed signal which is the full resolution of each eye. This feature will be available in a driver update for HDLink Pro 3D. __________________ Blackmagic Design

July 21st, 2010, 08:45 AM	#15
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	The frame packed material will be used by Blu-ray. It is too much for broadcast to deal with. They will be using squeezed side-by-side and above-below, so the 3D TV's will support those input methods as well. To my experience they also have manual menus to select the input mode. I have been able to play regular 2D BD's with sbs and a/b 3D on them created by Tim's Stereo3D Toolbox and burned with Toast and watch them in 3D on several different manufacturer's LCD sets, and with the Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 on the DLPs, so I would be very surprised if the HD Link Pro 3D didn't work on just about any major manufacturer's 3DTV set. Don't need MVC, HDMI 1.4 or 3D player (which will buy full res on both L/R frames) for sbs and a/u 3D streams. HDMI 1.4 and MVC compression is used by "real" 3D BD's that are made of unobtainium at the moment, with the exception of couple of demo's. That is where Adam helped me little while back. Last edited by Pavel Houda; July 21st, 2010 at 12:41 PM.