New 4-Color CCD from Sony at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The DV Info Network > Digital Video Industry News

Digital Video Industry News
Events, press releases, bulletins and dispatches from the DV world at large.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 16th, 2003, 09:04 AM   #1
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,315
New 4-Color CCD from Sony

Looks like Sony is releasing a new 4-Color CCD for it's digital cameras. Wonder if they will eventually try to integrate something like this into DV cams...

http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/so...lorCCD_pr.html
Imran Zaidi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2003, 10:12 AM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Israel
Posts: 115
I've looked on Sony examples, but to my eye the old 3-color picture is more pleasing. Am I alone?
Vladimir Koifman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2003, 10:37 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,315
Well it's hard to gauge with a low rez web graphic, but it does seem like there is a lot more color in the gradient on the yellow flowers in the 4-color sample.

I'd like to see some snapshots of human faces. It's always easier to gauge richness with human faces - at least it is for me.

So much is dependent on other things though... monitors (calibrated or uncalibrated), print quality, personal perception, etc. etc.
Imran Zaidi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2003, 11:54 AM   #4
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
I think it's another sign that very soon 1-CCD camcorders will replace 3-CCD camcorders, because one chip will be all you need.
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2003, 07:39 PM   #5
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
True. But, from a pure marketing perspective, it may be a hard sell. "Less" or "fewer" is a real challenge to sell when it refers to a characteristic considered to be a positive attribute for a product. Generally, this is done by repositioning or recategorizing the attribute. Intead of a "1-chip CCD" look for something like "an Advanced Dual Overhead Cam Image Capture Plate (ADOCICP)".
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2003, 09:17 PM   #6
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
"...now with five-micron shift registers!"
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2003, 10:20 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 581
Well, there goes the color wheel.
Rob Belics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2003, 09:40 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jarrettsville, MD
Posts: 353
This just sounds like a different way to accomplish Canon's "Pixel Shift" operation, which is based on the fact that more information is captured with green pixels than red or blue.

See http://www.canondv.com/gl2/f_pixel_shift.html.

As for 1-CCD replacing 3-CCD, I remain totally confused. Single CCDs already have resolutions well beyond the combined resolution of 3-CCD cams and certainly can handle the speed. If 1-CCD is attractive (I'm assuming because of price and reduced complexity), why are all the high-end consumer and prosumer cams, especially those released in the past year, 3-CCD?

Will
Will Fastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2003, 06:45 PM   #9
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Vallejo, California
Posts: 4,049
I'm guessing it is because to get an equivalent pixel area per color on a 1 CCD chip, it is going to be very big. And that means more expensive optics. Think of a single chip CCD the size of a 35mm frame (they already have them) and extrapolate the size of a 19X zoom (how about the Canon 100X zoom) to cover that size a chip.
__________________
Mike Rehmus
Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!
Mike Rehmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2003, 07:27 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: detroit, mi
Posts: 187
It's going to be interesting to see if Nikon uses Sony's new chip or put their own new chip(D2H) in upcoming DSLR's. Should be fun.
Matt Betea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2003, 04:36 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 358
Quote:
I think it's another sign that very soon 1-CCD camcorders will replace 3-CCD camcorders, because one chip will be all you need.
Hey guys, I may be way off the mark here, and I freely admit that I know little of the physics and optics of CCD systems, but could one advantage of 3-CCD over 1-CCD be the masking of dead pixels?

I know that many cams allow pixel remapping, but surely it's less likely to get the same dead/stuck pixel in 3 CCDs than 1, so the 2 remaining CCDs fill in for the dead pixel. OK, so there will be a colour shift, but less noticeable than white.

Or have I grasped the stick firmly at the wrong end?
Nigel Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2003, 08:38 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jarrettsville, MD
Posts: 353
That's an interesting theory, Nigel, but my own experience with dead pixels on LCDs makes me think the contrary.

When I first bought my laptop, a red pixel was stuck on. That's one pixel in a field of 1024x768 = 786,432 pixels. The thing was like a beacon, stuck out like a sore thumb, no matter what else was displayed on the screen. The only thing that hid it was a red area right on top of it.

Now this may not be right, but extrapolating that experience to a 3-CCD system and thinking about a white field with one dead pixel, the other two pixels are going to combine to form a color that sharply contrasts with white. I'd expect the resulting pixel to be in sharp contrast and immediately visible.

I sent the laptop back for a replacement. From this forum and others, I gather that's what most of us would do with a cam with one dead pixel, too.

Will
Will Fastie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2003, 01:35 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Budapest
Posts: 48
Will Fastie wrote:
>As for 1-CCD replacing 3-CCD, I remain totally confused. Single
>CCDs already have resolutions well beyond the combined
>resolution of 3-CCD cams and certainly can handle the speed.

But light sensitivity remains an important problem of 1-CCD cameras. It may not worth the money for a consumer product to put a prism and 2 more CCDs, but for a professional product it does worth the money.

Why is light sensitivity better for a 3CCD camera? - Let's consider that you build a 1CCD camera and a 3CCD camera using the same CCD chips and put the same lens in front of the cameras. In the case of the 1CCD camera the color filter will block about two third of the light that would go onto the sensors on the CCD. That means that the 3CCD camera will give the same noise and color clarity at about one third the light amount that is required for the 1 CCD camera to give the same noise and color clarity.

If a professional will need to choose between a 1CCD and a 3CCD camera (for the 2/3" format for example), he will choose the 3CCD camera because you need much less lighting for it than in the case of the 1CCD camera for the same image quality. Even if it will be a little more expensive.

If the future will be the CMOS color sensor, the same applies to this type also. Except of course if the new Foveon sensor technology will get better then CCDs. Now this technology is noisier.

So I think where quality will be the priority, it will be 3CCD for a long time unless some new technology emerges. And I think that even the extra high definition movie cameras will be 3CCD cameras if they will get widespread in a few years. Now Dalsa is making it's 8 megapixel 1 chip camera, but their reasoning for 1CCD is not better picture quality, but that this 1 chip solution can be put into current movie camera equipment much more seemlessly.

Balazs
Balazs Rozsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2003, 08:38 AM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,315
I'm sure if these 4-color ccds take off, they'll be making 4-color 3ccd cameras for 2 times the cost of 1 camera today with 1/2 of the advanced functionality we want.
Imran Zaidi is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The DV Info Network > Digital Video Industry News

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:29 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network