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Old November 25th, 2008, 12:07 AM   #31
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youtube is also more picky about what music it will allow anymore... vimeo has yet to catch on I guess. That is a another whole debate but for certain family vids and event videos like riding the dunes... rock and roll is damn near a must.

but this is still very cool!

Here ya go, exact same WMV file on youtube and vimeo...

(lol, ok now it's not private anymore)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpReusp4Z4c

http://www.vimeo.com/1943374

EDIT: another comparison.. this time, MP4 made just for youtube, and a WMV made just for vimeo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoE_2J8xgNc

http://www.vimeo.com/2142077

Last edited by Erik Phairas; November 25th, 2008 at 02:48 AM.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 09:05 AM   #32
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Vimeo all the way

YouTube now supports video!

Vimeo all the way if you plan to upload videos with devices above cellphones :) I like YouTube for it's popularity, but quality wise...that's a no. As we all know, a picture worth a thousand words, well, compare the videos and Vimeo currently rocks.

I KNOW that not all of us out there can afford more or less pricey HD devices and so on, I understand that and by all means, let everyone enjoy uploading with whatever they can afford to, but DO encourage and offer good quality possibilities for those who can afford good quality SD/HD, get me? :)
I'm not impressed with YouTube's HD mode yet...

Conclusion:
Quality wise, Vimeo is the way.
Exposure wise, YouTube is the way.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 09:39 AM   #33
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yea the difference leans pretty heavy towards vimeo. Even the sound is not as good on youtube. But as least they have closed the gap a little with this upgrade.

I wish they would extend that time limiit to 15 minutes though. I find my HD videos are longer than my old SD vids.

Youtube has always been really picky about which format you use to upload. So it may take a bit of trial and error to find the best HD upload.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #34
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Been waiting for this upgrade on YouTube for a long time. Can't wait to get some specs on the best upload format/quality.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 03:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugurel Dragusin View Post
YouTube now supports video!
Vimeo all the way if you plan to upload videos with devices above cellphones :) I like
Vimeo doesn't play directly on the iPhone's Safari browser but YouTube does.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 11:42 PM   #36
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looks much more passable when you add &fmt=22 at the end...

YouTube - Team kawasaki out on the town (youtube HD)
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Old November 26th, 2008, 12:09 AM   #37
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The battle is commencing on Vimeo
Look at this YouTube HD video.
Play it full screen
YouTube - Intel - Touch of Genius HD
The solids and subtle gradients hold up very well. I do see aliasing but overall this is quite good. Some tough to compress areas hold up well. This is far superior to the "Matt" video people reference. I still wish I could turn scaling off to see it at 720p rather than 1080. I need to see more "action" video to see how the frame rate is being handled. I'm very impressed with this video. I could use it for online client screening.

Someone on Vimeo posts that it's 2000kbps with peaks at 3500kbps and it's .mp4 (so it must be H264). I think H264 is better than On2VP6 Vimeo uses. I think maybe YouTube MIGHT get this right. I just wish they'd allow for more than 10 minutes. I'd be willing to pay for that. Vimeo charges $60/year now for multiple HD uploads and 2GB per week limit. BTW others examining frame rate and seeing full 30fps (rather than Vimeo's HORRID frame rate conversion to 24fps).

Erik I still see many more issues with the link you posted than the Intel link. In full screen I can spot the keyframes and I can see macroblocking in the gradients.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 12:19 AM   #38
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Here's a good challenge someone did. The material is not the easiest to encode if you know how compression works.
Check both out at full screen. Let them buffer completely first to make sure you don't confusing buffering issues with actual quality.

YouTube - Landing: Success and Failure

Landing: Success and Failure on Vimeo
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Old November 26th, 2008, 12:47 AM   #39
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mine was encoded as a MP4 VBR 4mb average, 14mb peak. Something like 200megs total filesize. I wish those guys would tell us how they encoded theirs.

EDIT: hey the sound is out of sync when you use the &fmt=22 code.. that's not good.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 01:24 AM   #40
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MP4 isn't necessarily H264. MPEG4 part 2 will not look as good as MPEG4 part 10 (AKA AVC, AKA H264) at the same data rate. Also source matters. Source from HDCAM is going to look better than source from HDV. Not all H264 codecs are equal. These days MainConcept seems to be best and Dicas is close behind. Apple, which once lead, is now in third place. The one thing Apple has going for it is that Compressor can do multipass encodes (more than 2 passes) wheras other encoders max at 2 passes. BTW this is one reason why when you "max out" settings in Apple Compressor, H264 encoding can be glacially slow even on an 8 core Mac with 4 virtual clusters. Increasing B frames (turning on frame reording in Compressor) can improve allocation of bits but it increases decode burden (complexity for viewing CPU/GPU). It might give them a better file to encode though since the "tough parts" or going to be allocated more bits (look better) on the encoded file you upload.

Always target frame size and frame rate they're playing back. Don't let their "fast" encode do scaling or frame rate conversion. You can do slower better scaling to 720p30 for YouTube upload. Max the file size. Make sure your file is as close to YouTube's 1GB max as possible. Throw as much data as possible at them. Your upload should be near 1GB and not 200mb.

Keep your source as noise free as possible. Encoders throw out repeated pixels and save delta (change/random) pixels. Encoding acts as a noise amplifier. Kill noise. It may mean bringing down noisy grays to noiseless blacks. Sometimes black restore in your compression app can help although I think it's better to do it in your NLE or Coloring app.

Keeping that pixel change is saved and repeated elements are tossed, locked down camera is going to be a major improvement over even slight motion in hand held. All that exaggerates compression artifacts as the encoder uses bits to preserve motion.

There's probably more tips I can think of as time goes on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Phairas View Post
mine was encoded as a MP4 VBR 4mb average, 14mb peak. Something like 200megs total filesize. I wish those guys would tell us how they encoded theirs.

EDIT: hey the sound is out of sync when you use the &fmt=22 code.. that's not good.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 11:27 PM   #41
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alright try this one... MP4 (main concept from Vegas 8.1) VBR 20mb peak, 10mb average. It wouldn't let me do a 2 pass render.

I think it came out better. I sure the sound is messed up as I didn't change the settings for that.

YouTube - Carving Jack HD
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Old December 5th, 2008, 10:54 AM   #42
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Youtube now capable of 720p

Youtube is now capable of of showing 720p-content. If there's a 720p-version of a particular clip, you have to append &fmt=22 to the url to see it.
Here is an example I shot with my ex1:
YouTube - Filips Diplomkonzert
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Old December 5th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #43
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sounds great! & looks great as well! gotta say... I'm a little surprised w/ youtube!
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Old December 5th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #44
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I uploaded my first 720p file to Youtube yesterday as a test. Went smoothly, and looks very good. This takes Youtube from a toy to a legit contender for shorts for me. And no pesky "upload one HD file a week" stuff like Vimeo. Though I do really like Vimeo.

Good stuff from Youtube!
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Old December 5th, 2008, 11:46 AM   #45
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If YouTube keeps it free with unlimited uploads, that will really hurt Vimeo and their silly Plus service...
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