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Old September 9th, 2010, 11:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Emerick View Post
Didn't Steve answer an email awhile back saying the next version of FCS would be "awesome"? With all I have invested into FCP (time, hardware, plug-ins) I can at least wait till the next version before making a decision about my future with FCS. Having said that, anything short of awesome could be the last straw for me as well. As for MacSoda, they are JAFO. Anyone who saw "Blue Thunder" knows what that is.
The problem is, it doesn't have to be "awesome" or "magical" (how I hate that term), it just has to have the features that pro users need, it has to be integrated well with other professional tools (both Apple and third party), and it has to be fast. Radical changes just to make people say "wow!" aren't what's needed here. Making all transitions instant wouldn't be sexy, but it would be useful. Changing the interface to make it work like iMovie might look cool, but it's not necessary.
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Old September 9th, 2010, 12:20 PM   #17
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I agree with some of the stuff said about FCS3, but I did notice some speed increases with Snow Leopard. But I also don't have a problem with FCP7 not getting anything spectacular, like Smoothcam and ProRes, but instead focusing on getting the app better.

I wish they'd make the Share function better and faster. I wish they'd put Blu-ray into DVDSP and give us an honest update (5+ years now).

Apple doesn't announce anything at a trade show anymore, as we saw with FCS3 last year and all the new iPhone, iPad, iPod announcements of late.

I don't think Apple is abandoning it, and I loved that Steve Jobs gave a verbal shout out to FC at the iPhone 4 antennae issue.

One more thing to remember: Consumer products will always outsell pro products, that's just a fact of life. Apple needs their iDevices to do well, so we can keep getting pro stuff.

My thoughts on Avid MC5: Nice, but Avid's UI has always been tricky. Premiere Pro CS5: Terrific, but I still like FCP's UI and ease-of-use better.

Most places I've worked had FCP running, which was great. They loved it more than Adobe, Avid, Vegas, etc. Does Apple need to do a HUGE update of FCS? Yes! But it's still, in my opinion, the best NLE out there for the money.

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Old September 9th, 2010, 02:38 PM   #18
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I agree with you on some parts.. but at the end, my biggest complain is the secrecy. If you look at all major players in any professional industry, they communicate with their customers. Look at Avid, Adobe, Autodesk, RED, Canon... they all talk to you through Facebook, Twitter, blogs...

What does Apple do? Nothing. I find it childish, and I detest the fake hype surrounding their products. All the supposed leaks that are deliberate to build up hype to get free media attention. That attitude, I despise it. And for that reason, I am fed up with Apple. I do agree that Final Cut Pro is still the best NLE out there, (FCS not the best suite, that honor goes to CS5 if you ask me) but Apple isn't my company anymore. They don't take you, their customer, serious.

I also have problems with the Avid interface. But I don't have problems with Premiere Pro CS5, it is the first stable version in ages, the Mercury Playback engine is ace, the Dynamic Link round tripping works perfectly, Audition is coming to the Mac, which is a solid sound editor. There is a huge library of plug-ins, and many can be shared with After Affects... I really think Adobe is making huge progress. And all those applications are stable... they don't add too much stuff that jeopardizes stability. The biggest improvements can be made in speed, shortcuts, better markers.. FCP is definitely way ahead in that regards. But they also took some time to get there... and I am sure Adobe will improve upon this in the future. Especially now they see that they have another year or 2 and many FCP users are considering switching... One of the things I really love in the Adobe suite is when you point your mouse at a screen area and hit ~, that windows/element goes fullscreen in an instant... and this works so fast that I can comfortably edit on a laptop screen. So they are behind in terms of editing speed but not in terms of UI if you ask me.

I am attending IBC this weekend, and I already know there is a big Adobe booth, a big Avid booth... and Apple is nowhere to be found. Their choice... but the fact that they are not willing to spend money in this industry anymore... it says it all for me. They also don't show ProApps at dedicated events... they just release them... and then comes the big silence again. Feel my frustration.

Apple's focus is on iOS and not on OS X or ProApps anymore. Sad but true.
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Old September 9th, 2010, 04:40 PM   #19
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I am also a recent FCS convert having used Avid Liquid in the past. I was even a moderator on the Liquid forum. When Liquid was more or less killed I was faced with a tough choice and I decided to give FCS a try. So far I love it and I think it is a great system. I have tried every other NLE out there on PC and Mac and I decided to use FCS. That must say something about this old dog of a program. It may be old but it still has a very tricks up it's sleeve that other systems have trouble with.

With that said I do see limitations with FCS. It faces exactly the same problem that Liquid faced. Liquid started out with Fast many moons ago and was eventually bought by Pinnacle who did amazing things with the product. Pinnacle was then bought by Avid and Avid killed it. Basically Liquid had the same sort of history as Final Cut. Both are based on a very old outdated 32bit codebase that has actually been outdated for many years now. Apple was clever however and kept throwing neat tools on top of that ancient codebase to make it seem more modern. Liquid faced a lot of the same problems but Pinnacle was never given the chance to add external programs such as Compressor and DVD Studio Pro to make up for it's slow rendering and limited DVD authoring. In fact if you think about it the entire FCS is a hodgepodge of software Apple purchased from other companies. I think Compressor and Motion are the only two applications Apple actually made themselves.

Avid/Pinnacle knew Liquid was built on outdated code and when the decision was first made to can Liquid it was to start all over with a new application built from the ground up. That was the only way Liquid could move forward. Personally I think it could have made the same steps Apple did with FCS to extend the life a couple more years but thats another story.

To me it's kins of sad because I just came from a NLE that at one point had a bright future which quickly faded away. Now I have jumped to another NLE that may have the same fate in a year or two. Nice.

I do see Apple in a much different position then Avid was however. Liquid always competed with Media Composer and Avid couldn't have that so many of us think Liquid's days were numbered anyway. Apple on the other hand has no other products that directly compete with FCS. I think it is in their best interest to rebuild FCS. The process does take a lot of time however and I'm sure most of us want Apple to make sure they do it right. I for one do not wish to be a video orphan again and hope FCS is with us for a long time yet. I had a choice as a Avid user to switch to Media Composer for an insanely low price but I decided not to for creative and my own personal issues. I think Avid does some good stuff but it just isn't for me. FCS was the most suitable fit for me when I moved from Liquid and hopefully I will be here to stay for a little bit longer.
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Old September 9th, 2010, 04:51 PM   #20
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Apple does listen, I'm pretty sure of it. They just do it in a different way, like reading what we post. I wish they weren't as secretive, but we have to deal with it. I've been a dedicated FCP user since 1999, and I don't plan on switching anytime soon.

I've used Premiere, Vegas, Avid, D-Vision and others, and I still like Final Cut Pro best.

And I agree, Adobe Production Bundle CS5 is terrific!

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Old September 9th, 2010, 06:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
I do see Apple in a much different position then Avid was however. Liquid always competed with Media Composer and Avid couldn't have that so many of us think Liquid's days were numbered anyway. Apple on the other hand has no other products that directly compete with FCS.
Apple has to realize that FCP is about the only compelling reason for pro video guys to stick with the macintosh platform. While there are always exceptions, pro users aren't susceptible to Job's "reality distortion field" and will move to other platforms if they feel FCP is a dead end. Yes, Snow Leopard is a great operating system, and FCP still has a lot going for it, but as a group, we're mature enough to recognize Windows based software as viable options. Face it, if you were going to switch from FCP to CS5, and it was also time to upgrade your production machine, would you automatically buy a Mac Pro?

Even though FCP/FCS isn't a major component in Apple's financial future, it has to have some value as a prestige product. After all, Jobs is very visible in the entertainment industry. I hope we're all wrong about this sinking feeling we're getting regarding Final Cut.
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Old September 9th, 2010, 06:42 PM   #22
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I don't have much of a sinking feeling, to be honest. But I'd like to see a HUGE update in the next 6-9 months. I think that will make us all feel better.

Besides, weren't we hearing about Final Cut Pro's imminent demise last summer, before FCS 3 debuted?

Also, I wouldn't necessarily buy a Mac Pro--I'd go with a MacBook Pro 17-inch model running an i7 processor, 8GB of RAM, an external hard drive and a Matrox MXO2 box.

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Old September 9th, 2010, 10:10 PM   #23
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hi

Heath thats the macbook pro I have I also sell these at a discount once a month . I would still like a 12 core macpro 2


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Old September 9th, 2010, 10:47 PM   #24
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I'm just going off my budget, but yeah, a 12-core Mac Pro would be great!

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Old September 10th, 2010, 12:57 AM   #25
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Sounds great, a 12-core Mac Pro.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 04:44 AM   #26
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We seem to have a self-perpetuating rumour going on here. Is there any evidence that Apple will sell or discontinue FCS? Where did this idea come from?

If FCS is profitable, it still makes sense for Apple to develop it. A broad company is stronger than one that puts all its eggs in one basket. Maybe Steve Jobs spends less time on FCS and more on the iphone but let's hope the team which heads the project is still dedicated, I can't see why they wouldn't be.

If they are doing a total rebuild, that will take time. I hope it is worth the wait for both us FCS professionals and Apple.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 08:51 AM   #27
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Is there any evidence that Apple will sell or discontinue FCS?
To be blunt, that's the sanest post I've read in this thread of speculation.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 09:38 AM   #28
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It's hard to imagine sometimes just how big Apple is these days. Just read an article that talked about Michael Dell's infamous 1997 comment that Apple should be shut down and the money returned to the stockholders. At the close of yesterday's market, Apple's market cap was 10 times that of Dell's, and Apple has enough available cash to purchase Dell outright. Twice.

So basically, Apple could be spend as much as Avid and Adobe combined on NLE software development, and it wouldn't be a significant portion of the company's resources.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 09:41 AM   #29
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I second that "sanest post" comment! Until then, we just have to wait and see what happens. If you need to upgrade and you want to go with Adobe, go for it. Otherwise, I've been using FCS3 for a year now and I love it, no real big issues to speak of. Could it be better? Yes, always, but I still think it's a great update.

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Old September 10th, 2010, 10:27 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mike Marriage View Post
Is there any evidence that Apple will sell or discontinue FCS?
An excellent question, and the answer is: No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath McKnight View Post
... we just have to wait and see what happens
Indeed, and a perfect comment with which to conclude this thread. Thanks all,
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