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Old March 26th, 2011, 06:16 PM   #1
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300 fps - Please, anyone?

I'm in love with 300fps. It's not too fast yet captures expressions and action on a whole different level to 60fps or less.

I think I could work pretty much excusively with that frame ratre for my creative projects if I could find a camera that could pair it with a decent resolution.

I have a Casio EX-F1, had it for about two years now. Whilst it is far behind in resolution, it's given me a window into the future working with that frame rate.

Can't afford a Phantom Flex and even 20,000 is out of my price range. If a camera like the AF-100 came out with a 300fps feature at sub 8K, I would buy it tomorrow.

Anyone heard of anything on the horizon? Surely 300fps at 1080p is technology not far around the corner?
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Old March 26th, 2011, 09:30 PM   #2
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Kris,

I have been keeping an eye out for something affordable also, nothing yet. Obviously, the technology is here, but the price is not coming down on those Phantoms.

I am hoping Casio will continue to improve on their Exilim line. I have the EX-FH25. It shoots high def at normal speed (30 fps) and then goes up to 120, 240, 480, 1000 fps with a drop in resolution with each speed increase. My favorite is 120 fps because it is 640 x 480 standard def. I find the 480 and 1000 modes to be useless due to poor resolution. This camera is about $350 now. There are still some EX-FH20 cameras floating around but I would not buy one as the beginning high speed is 210 fps at less than standard def resolution.

It has a 20X zoom lens. Some limitations include not being able to zoom while recording. Also, the lens sticks out a long ways at full zoom and I have found that high wind or vibration will cause the lens to sort of "rattle" which blurs the image. No sound recorded in high speed mode.

I really enjoy the slow mo effect and at 120 fps, you get a 4x slow down effect, and decent quality. Not sure what the limit is on record times, I have 16GB sticks and have shot for over 10 minutes.

Mark
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Old March 26th, 2011, 10:54 PM   #3
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Your best shot is the Red Scarlet if/when it appears at NAB. 120 fps in 720p.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 04:45 AM   #4
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Tim - Yes, the Scarlet is getting toward what I'm after, but 120 is not quite fast enough.

Slow motion is my absolute favourite creative format. On a creative level, it can give you something that awes people when it's done right. 120fps slowed using software to 300fps won't nearly achieve the same results as a 300fps native acquired footage.

Spent a long time working at different frame rates when we've had cameras like the Phantom on client projects and studying high speed work online. My personal opinion is that how much you overcrank is relative to your audience's psychological suspension of disbelief for your story.

Thus, anything faster than 300 is seen as a novelty shot and your audience will see the shot as slow motion. But 300 appears to be optimal in that alternative dimension between normal speeds and novelty slo-mo.

(I hope that made sense!) Meanwhile, I guess I'll just continue to dream!

Mark, I can see why you went for the FH25 for the 33% higher res at 120fps over EX-F1's 300fps. I just hate the fixed lens on those cameras, such a huge limitation. They call it a 'pro' camera, but no pro camera has a fixed lens. I went with the EX-F1 for 60fps at 1080p - When you upscale the 300 fps to 720p using Red Giant Instant HD, it doesn't look too bad. I also used Neat Video to get rid of some of the artefacting. Give it plenty of light and it doesn't look half bad.

This is a preview using that method for the beginning of a Sigur Ros music video I made. I'm not permitted to release the full version, so only a preview I'm afraid.
Shot on a Casio Exilim EX-F1 with some heavy post-processing.

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Last edited by Kris Koster; March 27th, 2011 at 05:39 AM.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 05:10 AM   #5
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
Your best shot is the Red Scarlet if/when it appears at NAB. 120 fps in 720p.
That's the first time I've heard about the 2/3" Scarlet being windowed at 120fps.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 09:09 AM   #6
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Hey Brian, it looks like I was off-base in posting that Scarlet info. This is what I found:

3K: 1-120fps (150fps burst)
Scaled 1080P: 1-60fps
Scaled 720P: 1-60fps

Looks correct but I am surprised the scaled 720p is only at 60fps. Sorry for the error.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 11:46 AM   #7
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Yes, Tim, seems a bit odd.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 01:15 PM   #8
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Does that mean the Scarlet won't do 120fps?

It surprises me that the bigger brand names don't do more to give us higher frame rates.
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Old March 27th, 2011, 07:25 PM   #9
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

From what I could find it will only do 120fps in 3k, which is its native resolution.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 01:40 AM   #10
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

I guess all the processing need to scale it, slows down the frame rate compared to just the straight RAW.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 07:20 AM   #11
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Polster View Post
Your best shot is the Red Scarlet if/when it appears at NAB. 120 fps in 720p.
When I saw the Scarlet at Nab in 2008 I wanted one. Same in 2009 and 2010 but you say I can buy one at NAB 2011? Only 15 days until NAB. Sweet! I'm getting one and as soon as I get back I will post some pictures!

I was under the impression they were in a five year cycle between announcement and actual release and was planning on getting one in 2012. If it's really a year early I will be a very happy guy and maybe I can sell some of the six cameras I have purchased since waiting for the Scarlet.

Plus now I won't feel so embarassed for those people who have been building their Scarlet online for the past four years, trying to keep up with all the pre-production changes. There are some people who have made over 1000 online posts for a camera that you couldnt't buy until now!

If anyone has any requests for things they would like me to shoot with my new Scarlet, please post them. I'm sure Chris is working hard on making a new Scarlet thread so look for the information there right after NAB. I'm so excited it has finally arrived....
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Old March 28th, 2011, 07:35 AM   #12
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

I don't think it'll be available until end of summer 2011,
well at least that's what Red Leader says, but you know , with Red everything is subject to change,
without notice :)
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Old March 28th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #13
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

David, it's definitely not available today, and I haven't read anything about it being for sale at NAB. They will certainly show it at NAB though. There is footage on the web showing prototypes capturing video.

Overall, it looks like EPIC-S (formerly, Scarlet S35) will be available before the Scarlet 2/3 models.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 12:31 PM   #14
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

There has been a delay in delivering the Scarlet because of the earthquake in Japan resulting in a hold up for some components.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 12:58 PM   #15
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Re: 300 fps - Please, anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buba Kastorski View Post
I don't think it'll be available until end of summer 2011,
well at least that's what Red Leader says, but you know , with Red everything is subject to change,
without notice :)
END OF SUMMER?! I canít believe it. I promised footage and photos after I returned from NAB. Well now that looks like that wonít happen and I hope Chris Hurd hasnít been putting a lot of time and effort in setting up that new section of the forum, I would feel terrible!

I have over three years of designing my own Scarlet System. Trying to keep up with the changes, added or dropped features/models has been a real pain. I have three years invested proving to myself that this camera is ďthe oneĒ and I still havenít settled on the right lens. Can you believe it?

Now that I think about it, thatís about 2 Ĺ years more study than any camera I actually own. I have to admit I too had a scare when I saw the Panny AF100, so much so I was compelled to purchase one. Yes I know, itís not the camera my Scarlet is going to be but it does actually capture footage.

NOT BBC footage mind you but since I was on no BBC short list I am aware of, I stumbled ahead blindly despite spending only a few weeks of research. Well I had seen what the likes of what Philip Bloom had done but Philip can super-glue a GoPro to a monkeyís butt and make it interesting, so thatís no real test.

And not for nothing AF100 talk around here has been a little lean. So the camera I decided on got herpes and the one I want and need doesnít really exist, at least until the end of summer. Was that this summer or next?
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