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Old October 25th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #91
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

I think the 1Ds line is definetely dead and for a reason.

Pro PJs/Sports shooters need a very rugged, weather-resistant, dual-card, good at high ISOs and very fast camera, with just as many pixels to cover a double page/A3 but not more.

On the other hand, those that need a lot of resolution for higher-end advertising or HQ prints, shoot in MUCH more controlled environments and are often limited to the speed of their strobes, being therefore wasting all the features of a 1D body.

Canon might have experienced this first hand. As the 5D2 came out, mostly everybody stop buying the 1Ds, as they didn't need all those features, just a decent, high MPx FF camera.

Hasselblads are neither weather proof nor fast.

Next high-res Canon will be a 5D/3D, with more or less video features.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 10:37 AM   #92
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

During my briefing of the 1D X, Canon USA said themselves that the 1Ds is indeed no more. It's
gone, permanently (except for whatever unsold stock remains in retail inventory). Meanwhile the
1D Mk. IV will continue to be made in small batches for the next several months until the 1D X
finally ships next year. This leaves the 5D Mk. II as temporarily the only full-frame body in the
current EOS line, until the 1D X starts shipping.

Canon USA told me that up to this point, they could produce *either* a full-frame 1-series
body (the 1Ds), *or* a fast-frame-rate 1-series body (the 1D). Those days of "either - or" are
gone forever from the 1-series line, as the 1D X -- and whatever models follow in the next
generations -- offers *both* full-frame and fast-frame-rate capability. Best of both worlds,
in other words. I would look to Nikon to follow very soon in this manner as well.

Part of Canon's marketing message is that the "X" stands for (among other
things) crossover, merging the 1Ds and the 1D together into one camera body.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #93
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

All I'm sure about is that the "s" name will not continue, and that they likely will only have one camera named "1D".

A 1DXs would be just a sensor swap and flipping a few firmware switches. They don't even have to change the mirror mechanism anymore.

I believe the marketing people were clearly instructed to eliminate any expectation of a 1DXs as Canon has an increasingly long "to do" list. And in fact there may very well be no set commitment internally to make a 1DXs like camera yet. They may not have the fab capacity in the next year or more to make another high end sensor.

But if Canon is giving up the prestige of a high mp pro DSLR, with what are they replacing that high status position? They've come out with a brand new line of superteles, yet they don't plan on a top-end camera with pixel density to exploit all the new lenses?

A possibility is that the 1DX will move up in mp to match Nikon and Sony, and they'll introduce a 3 series as the "number 2" camera. But that's mostly semantics.

The performance and price gap between the 1DX and the 5DII is too big. Canon's always been careful in hitting important price points. Giving up the high price point (was the "s") after working years to be competitive at the top isn't likely.

Should be interesting. Are we at the beginning of significant new pro imaging product line, or is Canon in decline?
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Old October 25th, 2011, 11:30 AM   #94
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

Don hit on some good points.

Sony and Nikon will release 36MP cameras next year (D800 and A9x) in addition to Sony releasing 2 more FF cameras including one to compete with the 1D. However, all future FF Sony cameras will be SLT (translucent) with OLED VF.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 11:50 AM   #95
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post
2) If you are NOT a Pro Photographer, why would you spend $6800 on this camera when you can get REAL video cameras for LESS money such as the AF100 and FS100? When you add in the cost of extra accessories to make this 1D feel like a real video camera, you are getting close to F3 territory. Or you could buy a fully-equipped FS100.
Well said. End of story.

I still stand by the fact that most of the video I shoot has audio. When I don't care about the audio, my Canon 7D makes some amazing photos, but the rest of the time I want a camera that has real video & audio features. The AF100 / FS100 / F3 all have real audio features like XLR inputs, P48 power, mic / line switches. If you're a still shooter, get a DSLR. But if you're going to spend over $5k on a large sensor camera to do video, get the AF100, FS100 or F3.

Doing video on a DSLR is like going to Home Depot in a Prius. You're going to have a lot of stuff hanging off the roof, trunk & windows to bring home all the materials.

If you take a pickup, van or SUV to Home Depot & you won't spend an hour in the parking lot trying to figure out how to get your purchases home.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #96
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

I do think we're in agreement that the era of DSLR as video camera is ending. I got my hands on a 5DII in Dec. 2008. That's a long time ago.

But I'm sad when I look at how Sony has apparently crippled the VG20. Without true competition among equipment makers the natural free fall of price/performance in electronics doesn't happen. Without Red in the low cost space Sony is going to make sure we can't fully exploit the prosumer hardware they sell us.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 12:23 PM   #97
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post
Well said. End of story.

I still stand by the fact that most of the video I shoot has audio. When I don't care about the audio, my Canon 7D makes some amazing photos, but the rest of the time I want a camera that has real video & audio features. The AF100 / FS100 / F3 all have real audio features like XLR inputs, P48 power, mic / line switches. If you're a still shooter, get a DSLR. But if you're going to spend over $5k on a large sensor camera to do video, get the AF100, FS100 or F3.

Doing video on a DSLR is like going to Home Depot in a Prius. You're going to have a lot of stuff hanging off the roof, trunk & windows to bring home all the materials.

If you take a pickup, van or SUV to Home Depot & you won't spend an hour in the parking lot trying to figure out how to get your purchases home.
Ding ding ding!
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Old October 25th, 2011, 01:03 PM   #98
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post

Doing video on a DSLR is like going to Home Depot in a Prius. You're going to have a lot of stuff hanging off the roof, trunk & windows to bring home all the materials.

If you take a pickup, van or SUV to Home Depot & you won't spend an hour in the parking lot trying to figure out how to get your purchases home.
This depends on if you are an event shooter, or narrative shooter, etc. You cannot judge everyones needs on what your needs are.

In one recent thread, in a post by Charles Papert, we saw how he rigged a Sony F3 for a shoot. That camera had more stuff hanging off of it than you or I have ever had hanging off my 5D. And I am betting, but don't know, that they also were shooting double system sound. And of course, with modular design seeming to be the future of video cameras, in the narrative setting at least, it is actually a better practice, to separate your sound capture from your video capture for synching later. That way you don't run the risk of the camera contributing a problem to your sound capture, and you are limited to whatever sound limitations are on the camera.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 07:53 PM   #99
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

Dylan Couper's enthusiasm for shooting "strings of stills and then double them to make clean 24fps and skip all this "video" nonsense..." may need to be tempered by this statement by Angela Nicholson at Hands on: Canon EOS-1DX review | News | TechRadar UK
"We weren't able to accurately time the maximum continuous shooting duration of the sample model, it varied a bit, but was somewhere approaching 10 sec."

Damn!
Dylan's idea seemed pure genius.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 10:41 PM   #100
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

Pft, when I shot my short film on the 1D mkII, I only had about 6 seconds per clip. Loads of time. :)
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Old October 25th, 2011, 11:00 PM   #101
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post
Doing video on a DSLR is like going to Home Depot in a Prius. You're going to have a lot of stuff hanging off the roof, trunk & windows to bring home all the materials.
Perfectly Hilarious - well put!
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Old October 26th, 2011, 08:56 AM   #102
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

B & H list the 1DX, no price listed. If I read correctly, 60P/60i is missing from 1080. A surprise for a journalist camera.

Canon EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera 5253B002 B&H Photo Video
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Old October 26th, 2011, 10:40 AM   #103
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

You're right, no 1080/60P.


Info from B&H site states:

Video Shooting File Size: 1920 x 1080 (Full HD), 1280 x 720, 640 x 480
Frame Rates: [1920 x 1080]: 30 fps / 25 fps / 24 fps
[1280 x 720]: 60 fps / 50 fps
[640 x 480]: 30 fps / 25 fps
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Old October 26th, 2011, 11:37 AM   #104
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Love View Post
Doing video on a DSLR is like going to Home Depot in a Prius. You're going to have a lot of stuff hanging off the roof, trunk & windows to bring home all the materials.

If you take a pickup, van or SUV to Home Depot & you won't spend an hour in the parking lot trying to figure out how to get your purchases home.
What is it that you put on you DSLR rig that you don't put on a "normal" video rig?
Before I started to shot video with DSLR I didn't pey much attention to the sound, I used the auto mode on my XL2 and it turn out ok. Now I need to put more effort in sound and I get a better result now. Before I didn't use an external monitor, I only used the EVF, but now when I got one I would use it on another video rig too. I got a matte box now, but don't really need it, but it is got to hold filters.
I don't know if you rig (maybe you don't shoot DSLR) your DSLR rig as a Christmas tree, but I keep my rig tight and no extra.
For me DSLR video is not over, I will shot on my 7D for atleast 6-12 mouth more, maybe upgrade when a 5DIII would be released. My 7D have made me a better shooter and my clients are accepting what I give them. During this last mouth I hade UW pic in two TV programs.
I love that I can shot high res still and got HD video at the "same time".
It's been proven so many times that DSLRs work, and it will still work...
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Old October 26th, 2011, 12:25 PM   #105
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Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera

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Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
T In one recent thread, in a post by Charles Papert, we saw how he rigged a Sony F3 for a shoot. That camera had more stuff hanging off of it than you or I have ever had hanging off my 5D. And I am betting, but don't know, that they also were shooting double system sound. .
Actually Chris, I generally have MORE stuff hanging off my DSLR than we currently have on the F3, and that will be even more exaggerated when the pending firmware update with the F3 occurs (capturing 4:2:2 s-log with only one SDI output on the camera is currently requiring a distribution amp to send video to the viewfinder and onboard monitors, but in the next version of firmware this will be alleviated).

Just for fun, attached is a retread of that F3 pic and also my 1DMKIV from the pilot of the very same show, earlier this year. I think that was the most gacked-out my1D has ever been. From the front to the back (2nd pic): O'Connor O-box, DP6 monitor for operator, Marshall monitor for the AC, Preston MDR for the remote focus, Blackmagic HDMI to HD-SDI convertor, Blackmagic downconverter to feed the Dynawave SD transmitter (just under the handle), wireless receiver for confidence track audio, p-tap power splitters and DIonic 90. While some may think "why do you need all of that stuff", the answer for me is that this is what it took to transform the 1D (or 5 or 7D, which I would also use depending on the shoot) into what I considered a non-compromised shooting package. For a doc-style setup, I might have a few less of those things but I might also have a Zoom H4N onboard for self-contained sound, and other times an HD transmitter, so it never got too much more stripped down than this.

What's essential for me may be Christmas tree lights for others, but it depends on one's workflow and working style. I do know that when shooting handheld or Steadicam with my 1D setup, the center of gravity was exactly where it should be (sat perfectly balanced on the shoulder, for instance) and still weighed less than 20 lbs, so kind of perfect. I'd rather have 20 lbs of balanced weight than 8 lbs of front-heavy weight.
Attached Thumbnails
Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera-photo_3.jpg   Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera-photo_2.jpg  

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