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Old March 6th, 2012, 04:30 AM   #106
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

I do wonder if making things more video oriented is quite difficult, for various obscure reasons.
Sure adding zebras, peaking and other Magic Lanternish stuff seems fairly straightforward. But chucking on other things may just have started pushing it up into 4.5-5000 territory where they didn't want it to be.
That was Red's lament about the Scarlet, if I recall: "We thought we could work out how to mass produce a pro-sumer 4k cam-corder. We were wrong". So Canon aren't going to step too far outside this camera's safety zone in any case.
The FS100 seems like the first real attempt to lure DSLR cheapskates ( o / )up a little bit. Plus, as mentioned, you don't have to try too hard too please, low budget filmmakers anyway. They'll come for the picture:price ratio and work around everything else.
What am I talking about? I don't know really. I'll be curious to see where the C100 lands in all this I suppose. I'm worried it can't be so good that it'll rival the C300. But then what'll it be? Stuff for another thread perhaps.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:35 AM   #107
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

It has been written all over that the 5D ii was a surprise sales success to everyone (including Canon) when it comes to its video ability. But this doesnít add to the number of cameras sold to photographers as much as takes away from the sales of camcorders.

I meet quite a few photographers and I can tell you most have not even tried the video function on their camera (regardless of maker) and the few who have tried it, quickly realized that computer wise, they are woefully short in horsepower.

Going from a proper video camera and editing computer to a DSLR is much easier than a photographer learning DSLR shooting and techniques, equipment, video-editing software and hardware. Can you think of a camera that requires more add-ons and whiz bangs?

This camera wasnít a success because photographers felt they could get into the video business, it was videographers using what was previously sold as a digital camera that oh-by-the-way shoots pretty darn good video.

If we are being honest with ourselves, it would be the LAST camera type you would recommend to a beginner, unless you REALLY didnít like them. So yes, for any ex-spouse itís perfect.

Iím probably like most on here and own a couple of DSLR cameras. I have a T3i and 5D ii and like their capabilities. I carry one on a day to day basis, mostly for photos but it can serve as a back-up in a pinch, which it has. But it is far from the first camera I would grab and just about the last camera you would want to hand-off to an assistant to capture an important moment.

The niche, and yes itís a small one, is the cinematic or creative one where low light and/or shallow depth of field are the norm. Which may I add is getting rather old and canít wait until Iím no longer subjected to out of focus footage being portrayed as ďartĒ (I also waited too long to buy a slider, I hate that move now too.)

The truth of the matter is we all should probably be enrolled in some sort of 12 step program for new camera junkies. I know I have a problem. I already own five Canon cameras and have been going over this thread like it contained the next Power Ball winning numbers. Some of the calculations for sensor size and possible image quality on here make my head hurt and seeing the times posted makes me think there are others who may want to join my new program.

The market for professional camcorders is small and the market for DSLR video is tiny. I live in upstate New York in a county with over 800,000 people and if you want to actually look at XA10, XF100 or XF300 you need to make a trip to New York City. (Or you can call me and I could show you mine but that just reinforces my need to get cracking on the first step of the program.) For that matter I cannot even find a CF card locally that will work in the XF camera.

But I will be able to get my hands on a 5D iii at the local camera store because this town if full of photographers and this is really a digital camera that just happens to shoot video. I called my local camera store yesterday and when they found out who it was they started laughing. ďWe knew you would be calling and we already put your name of the first one.Ē That was a big relief.

Now that I know where I am in line I need to put my 5D ii on Ebay pronto before everyone else doesÖÖ.I think I may need an intervention.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #108
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

David Chilson = post of the day. And it ain't even 9am yet!
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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:55 AM   #109
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

+1, David!
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Old March 6th, 2012, 10:15 AM   #110
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

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Originally Posted by Brian Brown View Post
Zach, I'm referring to video-capable DLSRs. The Canons, Nikons, Sonys, etc. But I'd still bet that the 5Dii specific numbers are still around 10% max. as purchased for dedicated video platforms.
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So according to my unscientific poll at two of the largest camera retailers in the world, lots of videographers and video enthusiasts have been buying DSLRs, but the majority of DSLRs are purchased by photographers and photo enthusiasts. (Sorry for the redundant sentence.)
I think this is a case of the blind scientists & the elephant, we each only can report on what is in front of us. If we want to know what the elephant really looks like, we need solid data of the entire beast.

If Canon doesn't know what the 5Dii elephant looks like, they need to hire someone to look at the entire beast. Are video people making up 10% in sales from customers that would never have bought a DSLR? More? Less? Are they missing customers who want to buy, but need more video features? Are people buying DSLRs instead of XF300 cameras? Are people buying DSLRs for video & using them for stills? Buying for stills & using for video? ... ? ... ? ... ?

If Canon doesn't have these answers then they're making a mistake by having their "perfect Pepsi" when they should be looking for their "perfect PepsiS."

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Old March 6th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #111
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

Dang it Dave Chilson, I thought I had gotten over that need of a camera fix---- but now that you brought it up, I find my self starting to have that old feeling again.... yikes............
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Old March 6th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #112
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

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If Canon doesn't have these answers then they're making a mistake by having their "perfect Pepsi" when they should be looking for their "perfect PepsiS."

Malcolm Gladwell on spaghetti sauce | Video on TED.com
Interesting stuff. I'm not sure it makes your argument though. In this example the elephant includes the entire Canon DSLR range at least, and probably their other cameras as well. There's another dimension I think the lecture didn't cover. I'd argue the electronics industry at large has been doing these sorts of things for the last decade at least. Ever increasing numbers of lines and price points bamboozle customers..But they've actually gone one better than those food industry examples and discovered X number of perfect Pepsis is trumped by X number of Imperfect Pepsis.
I'm not going to say this is outright cynical behaviour. There's surely some practical reasons in there as well. But I think by now electronics companies know that given a customer with, for example, five different criteria for a camera purchase, show them three camera options that cover only three of their criteria each in different combinations and they'll still buy one. These cameras then cover other customers' different critera in similarly imperfect ways. The set of features in the range overlaps imperfectly. No line is made entirely redundant by any other. No one spending less than beaucoup bucks gets entirely what they want. And even then...
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Old March 6th, 2012, 12:33 PM   #113
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

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If Canon doesn't know what the 5Dii elephant looks like, they need to hire someone to look at the entire beast.
I suspect that Canon knows their own market a lot better than any of us possibly could. Huge multinational corps spend million$ in market research, and keep a close eye on what their competitors are doing.

Canon has always played conservative, and never been on the bleeding edge of anything. They typically let the other big boys come out with something, then they spend time developing, R&D'ing it, then bringing similar (and often better) technology out, sometimes as long as a generation later. Canon didn't come up with the idea of putting video in a DSLR body. Nikon did with the D90. A lot of folks forget about that. Canon improved DLSR video (over Nikon's implementation) with the 5D2, made huge leaps with the 7D and the 3 Rebel bodies, updated the firmware of the 5D2 at mid-point to give that body some of these improvements (leaving us 7D owners in the cold, apparently), and then developed the 5D3 that clearly makes more evolutionary change in the world of DSLR video.

I'd love to say that "this is Canon's game to lose" vs. Nikon, but I don't think a few thousand disgruntled Canon video shooters will make much of a dent on 5D2 sales if some of us move to the Nikon camp. Now, if the D800 ends up cutting-into their market-share because several tens of thousands of customers believe that that FF body shoots superior STILLS (or decides that the $500 extra the 5D3 costs them vs. the D800 isn't worth it)... then Canon will have to react to that.

The C300 draws a very visible line of demarcation between old, conservative Canon and a new breed of "bleeding edge" thinking, courting Hollywood with it. As has been said here, I sure hope it trickles down to a more-affordable C body for those of us that can't justify $16k for a video-centric large sensor camera. We'll have to wait and see...
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Old March 7th, 2012, 03:31 AM   #114
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

Can anyone confirm if the 5DMkIII has a "crop" feature in video mode like some DSLRs? (e.g. 3x digital zoom effect).

I've seen some debate around the web as to whether or not it has this useful feature - but I can't help thinking Canon would have spelled it out very clearly in the official specs if indeed it does!
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Old March 7th, 2012, 05:03 AM   #115
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

Chris Hurd has posted that it does not.
I find this unfortunate and wonder two things: why was this handy feature not included when a lower end model T3i has it, and also, could it be implemented in future firmware updates?
to me, it seemed like an advance like this should be included in all cameras hence forth... but then, i also thought the new 24-70 would include IS. silly me!
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Old March 7th, 2012, 05:30 AM   #116
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

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Can anyone confirm if the 5DMkIII has a "crop" feature in video mode like some DSLRs? (e.g. 3x digital zoom effect).

I've seen some debate around the web as to whether or not it has this useful feature - but I can't help thinking Canon would have spelled it out very clearly in the official specs if indeed it does!
I had a 5DIII in may hands yesterday on the Canon stand at the Focus on Imaging show at the NEC in Birmingham here in the UK (the show finishes at 17:00 today if anyone still wants to pop along). I looked through all the menus that I could find related to video & didn't see any HD crop feature like the 600D/T3i. Otherwise the camera looked & felt great. Slightly re-arranged controls from the 5DII but felt much the same. There isn't so much space for fitting a loupe certainly not with a stick-on frame. Zacuto's gorilla plate that attaches to the tripod mount for fixing the Z-finder may be OK.

Last edited by Nigel Barker; March 8th, 2012 at 04:17 AM.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 02:24 AM   #117
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

The only reason, I can think of, that the video section of the markIII is not radically evolved, is the iminent arrival of the 4k DSLR. Maybe within the 1st half of the year.

This also maybe the reason for the lack of 10bit out or 1080p50/60 on the C300
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Old March 8th, 2012, 02:33 AM   #118
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

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The only reason, I can think of, that the video section of the markIII is not radically evolved, is the iminent arrival of the 4k DSLR.
Yep, the 4k EOS-C is the only reason I put a hold on my intended 1DX purchase. Hopefully it's not all vaporware (just like the original Scarlet).

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Old March 8th, 2012, 07:50 AM   #119
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

Here's an APS-H sensor Canon developed. 120 mega-pixels... wow. Maybe something similar is planned for the 4k DSLR, who knows? Canon develops world's first 120 megapixel APS-H CMOS sensor: Digital Photography Review
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Old March 8th, 2012, 11:46 AM   #120
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Re: Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

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This also maybe the reason for the lack of 10bit out or 1080p50/60 on the C300
8-bits on the C300 was due to the development schedule. The C300 used an existing DSP. That defined the codec, bitrate, and 4:2:2, 8-bit signal. I think it's clear that the next Cinema camera will have a new DSP and better back-end formats.
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