Canon USA Announces EOS 5D Mark III

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick

Are the other improvements enough to make me want to buy the Mark III

They had me at "headphone jack."

[Tony Davies-Patrick]

The dedicated (7D-type) Video Start/Stop button on the new Mark III is a nice feature, but it may cause some problems for me. I use my thumb to access the start/stop function on the Mark II when I am filming underwater, and the higher point of the button on the Mark III body might prevent me from reaching it when inside the Scuba housing.

A question for anyone who has the 5D Mark III: Can the Menu be set so that the central "Set" button inside the Quick Control Dial can also start & stop video function (like it does on the Mark II), or can you ONLY start & stop via the newly placed small buton inside the video function toggle lever?

[Tony Davies-Patrick]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

They had me at "headphone jack."

That's a great addition which we've all been craving for a long time, Chris. However, I tend to record sound seperately more often with the 5D (it provides the cleanest recordings), so am able to plug my headphones directly into the Zoom H4, or the Sony WRR-805 and WRR-810 headphone sockets, to monitor sound.

On the occasions when I record external mics directly into the 5D, I also use the Sescom LN2MIC-ZMH4-MON 3.5mm Line to Mic with 25dB Attenuator for Zoom H4N with Headphone Monitoring Jack. This avoids the hassle of having to match seperate source sound recordings during post editing, but I've never been able to also avoid some kind of hiss when recording to a DSLR, even with added extras like the Sescom cables.

[Brian Brown]

Speaking of audio, I'm hoping my Tascam DR-100 can go from line out into a dialed-down setting on the 5D3. Or a padded cable. I'll then have some sync audio at 16 bits, and a master track on the Tascam at 24 bits, if I need better S/N. Zoom H4n should be similar, I'd imagine. Riding gain on one of these should be easier than at the camera, also.

[Zach Love]

Originally Posted by Brian Brown

No, Zach, but tourists and soccer parents make up the 95% that I'm talking about (gross sales) for prosumer cameras.

...

FWIW, clean-HDMI out isn't terribly important to me. ... Everyone has different needs and desires in their gear.

Then we're talking about different things. It sounds like you're saying 95% of DSLR sales are for non-professionals (seems off to me, but I'll agree that amatuers are the majority of sales). I'm just talking about 5Dii sales.

If you broke up the people who own a 5Dii into three groups: 1. video the reason to purchase; 2. video not affected purchase; & 3. video tipped the scale for purchase. I think 1 + 3 are greater than 2. All the professional still guys that I've talked to who have a 5Dii are in group 3 & not 2.

The real question is how large is group 1. To me the interest on these forums, the Televisual top ten rental lists, the AF100, FS100, F3, & C300 tell me that group 1 is a sizable group & valid market.

---

I agree, we each need different things. For me I do too much live video that it isn't a real video camera unless it gives me live video out.

[Steve Nelson]

The cinema and TV folks will certainly find clean HDMI out useful without a doubt. Not sure about everyone else though. I'm considering jumping over to the D800 from the 5dMkII for that reason alone but I realize I may be in the minority. The improvements in both cameras still need to be proven in the field though so I wouldn't expect a tsunami of buyers either way until we get more than the videos provided by marketing efforts.

[Brian Brown]

Originally Posted by Zach Love

Then we're talking about different things. It sounds like you're saying 95% of DSLR sales are for non-professionals (seems off to me, but I'll agree that amatuers are the majority of sales). I'm just talking about 5Dii sales.

Zach, I'm referring to video-capable DLSRs. The Canons, Nikons, Sonys, etc. But I'd still bet that the 5Dii specific numbers are still around 10% max. as purchased for dedicated video platforms. I've met maybe a dozen people with the Mkii and only one purchased it primarily for video. Many owners of the Mkii show up in my class to learn how to shoot video with it, and have barely touched filming with them because they found the footage shot "too jerky" or strobing, since they're photographers that think of shutter speed in terms of altering exposure.

Whether or not video capability influenced their purchase or not, I think it just too nebulous. It's hard to find competing products that DON'T also shoot video these days and buyers just say... "why not?" There's not a whole lot of options out there for FF stills, and many photogs REALLY want that capability. In the next few months, Canon and Nikon will add four new options, and that's great.

Ultimately, who knows, really, what this fraction of buyers are? I don't think even Canon does.

IMHO, Canon focused WAY more of its efforts in upgrading the stills side of the Mkiii than the video side, and maybe that alone indicates their audience. They could have easily put zebras and peaking in there, if they wanted to really sway some video-centric buyers. Or even NDs.

I give zero credence to the whole "they didn't want to cannibalize their video market" crowd. The DSLRs are a fraction of the price of the C300, and those of us that have gone through the pain of learning to shoot video on DSLR can NOT go back to an 1/3" sensor pro video cam. And some pros will own both a DSLR and a longer-clip small-sensor cam.

Nikon throwing their hat in the ring will bring some freshness to Canon's lineup, for sure, if they want to continue to attract the low-budget filmmaker crowd. Cue the "Dueling Banjos" music.

[Justin Molush]

Originally Posted by Steve Nelson

The improvements in both cameras still need to be proven in the field though so I wouldn't expect a tsunami of buyers either way until we get more than the videos provided by marketing efforts.

Exactly, I'm waiting for field testing to see if the D800's HDMI will be a noticeable improvement in video, and if the refinements in the video compression on the 5DIII are worthwhile. I do have a budget for another camera shortly here, but I want to see some pixel peeping eye candy before I make any judgments.

[Markus Nord]

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick

The dedicated (7D-type) Video Start/Stop button on the new Mark III is a nice feature, but it may cause some problems for me. I use my thumb to access the start/stop function on the Mark II when I am filming underwater, and the higher point of the button on the Mark III body might prevent me from reaching it when inside the Scuba housing.

A question for anyone who has the 5D Mark III: Can the Menu be set so that the central "Set" button inside the Quick Control Dial can also start & stop video function (like it does on the Mark II), or can you ONLY start & stop via the newly placed small buton inside the video function toggle lever?

Hi Tony, I shot with the 7D and on my Ikelite housing they put an arm that trigger the start/stop and you don't need to move your hand from the hadle. I can trigger video and photo without moving my hand.

...but I would also like to know if you can change the video trigger to other buttons... Especially to the shutter so you can use a cabel remote.

[Kenneth Fisher]

Guys, I live in New York not far from B&H and Adorama. I have spoken to employees in the photo section many times, before I purchased my DSLR, when I purchased it, and afterwards. Here is the scoop:

DSLRs are very popular with videographers. However, they told me that most of the people coming in to buy DSLRs are photographers, not video people.

So according to my unscientific poll at two of the largest camera retailers in the world, lots of videographers and video enthusiasts have been buying DSLRs, but the majority of DSLRs are purchased by photographers and photo enthusiasts. (Sorry for the redundant sentence.)

[Chris Hurd]

Thank you Kenneth for emphasizing something I've been trying to get folks to realize since Oct. 2008.

[Chris Barcellos]

I agree that the primary purchaser of the model is intended to be a still shooter, but Canon is also intending this camera along with the entire EOS line serve as their low end large chip video fleet to. Evidence ? They don' t have camera like the VG10/VG20 models or FS100 rig, and they are actively, now, pushing these cameras as their models for those purposes. Thus, because of the that marketing choice, we as users do have the right to complain about the things that are lacking. If these are intended for still purposes only, why so much time devoted at DVInfo, to those cameras ?

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

If it's 4096 wide (though it might be 3840), S-Video, in a 2:3 aspect sensor, it would be 2731 tall. That would be 11.8 MP.

Fair point, but I still think even that would be seen as lacking in a DSLR as far as stills go. It's what I meant by to engineer a camera for quality video AND stills, it's difficult not to compromise one.

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

If the camera records 4K from an S-Video window in a FF sensor, the width would be 1.6x 4096 = 6554. In a 2:3 sensor, the height would then be 4369. That would be a 28.6MP sensor.

Interesting thought, and I can see the logic.

But there is a snag, and that would be a compromise as far as lenses go. If you bought primarily for stills (and FF), the windowing for s35 would make them all far more telephoto for the windowed sensor. Ideally, you'd need a second set of lenses for video, matched to s35 coverage. It's possible, but I can see a lot of people just deciding to get a second camera, specifically designed for video!

Originally Posted by Josh Dahlberg

David, you made an excellent case for this on the D800 thread, but a spec I'm very curious about on the 5DIII is the sensor width: 5760 = exactly 3x1920.

Care to chime in on the potential significance of this; on the face of it Canon seems to have arranged the sensor configuration of a stills camera to in some way improve video requirements

It could be very relevant, but there's only so much you can deduce from the numbers.

Have you read Alan Roberts report on the C300? ( http://blog.creativevideo.co.uk/wp-c...an_roberts.pdf )

What's relevant to this discussion are guesses he makes about how the 720p output on the C300 MAY be derived from the sensor - bottom of page 13. He wonders if it's exactly what you're proposing here (sensor dimensions exactly three times the output resolution)

Each pixel group contains either 4 or 5 green photo-sites, 1 2 or 4 red, and 1 2 or 4 blue. ....... In principle, it would be possible to sum relevant photo-sites in each pixel and normalise the values pixel by pixel, but this would produce a fixed pattern of coloured noise which would probably not be acceptable.

Of course, what "would probably not be acceptable" in a broadcast video camera may be OK for video from a DSLR! Obviously (as I've said before) going to 4x1920 by 4x1080 would theoretically be a very good way to go. But maybe 3x is all that current technology allows......?

[Kenneth Fisher]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I agree that the primary purchaser of the model is intended to be a still shooter, but Canon is also intending this camera along with the entire EOS line serve as their low end large chip video fleet to. Evidence ? They don' t have camera like the VG10/VG20 models or FS100 rig, and they are actively, now, pushing these cameras as their models for those purposes. Thus, because of the that marketing choice, we as users do have the right to complain about the things that are lacking. If these are intended for still purposes only, why so much time devoted at DVInfo, to those cameras ?

I'm certainly not implying that the online video community shouldn't complain, criticize, or ask for a given capability on a DSLR. My reply was more directed to a discussion above about the primary market for DSLRs and the percentage of photographers vs. videographers who buy them, I guess in relation to how much Canon targets video features when rolling out a new model.

I do think that video is still more of an add-on feature to a DSLR, albeit a much more important one than 4-5 years ago.

In regard to your point about Canon not having a video-dedicated large sensor camera like VG-20, I think that will be remedied by the impending C-line of cameras. I expect that I won't be able to afford the first camera that comes out (I am not counting the C300.), but I think eventually Canon might have an entire range of C-cameras like they do for DSLRs.

[Brian Brown]

That's the point I've been trying to make for a few pages on this thread, Kenneth, so thanks for your feedback and observations. DSLR video shooters, despite all of the websites, books, YouTube & Vimeo videos touting, analyzing, and prognosticating on DSLR video, represent a very small percentage of DSLR camera buyers.

I, too hope for a dedicated line of EOS Cinema cams, but I fear that the same small numbers of buyers will keep the cameras in a higher profit-margin territory, and sell for much higher premiums than the DSLRs with their compromised sensors, features, and form-factors (and 10x to 100x the volume).

Now, I know that I WOULD pay $4-5k for a FF, 2k sensor video camera with XLR, scopes, zebras, NDs, etc. recording to MXF. But twice that? No, I'd probably make due with the 5D3 and all of its compromises and spend the extra $ on lighting, sound, or payments on a nicer car, accepting the "75% as good" footage I might get out of a DSLR.

It's simple. Smaller numbers of buyers mean higher prices or lesser features on the video side of DSLR. I'm not complaining. I'm much happier shooting large sensor video than I was when, umm... I... wasn't. And knowing that there's FOUR new FF DSLR camera bodies from two staunch competitors coming out this Spring that happen to shoot video, makes me very happy indeed.