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Old March 11th, 2012, 07:19 AM   #16
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

Canon can't drop too many things from the C300 as it's a very naked design already. It can:

1- change the codec
2- remove the LOG gamma
3- put a slower processor in

4- remove the NDs
5- merge the lcd and the viewfinder into one unit (same as FS100)
6- create a more simple box like design (same as FS100) or put it into a DSLR form (they have many of those laying around so it should be the most cheap option for them...??)
7- use SD instead of CF (don't see how this would improve theirs production costs but that's how it usually goes...)


I think that that's about all they can do to it. Changing the codec, removing the LOG and changing the processor is IMHO what's most likely to happen. Basically they should do the same thing that Sony did with F3 and FS100. It's really simple I guess.

But seeing as how it's cinema oriented I'm guessing it will be a more expensive camera with atleast a 2k resolution output, 4:2:2 internal coding and a 4:4:4 uncompressed via SDI. 10bit is a must as is a LOG function. And it will probably use the sensor from the C300.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 07:57 AM   #17
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjin Svajger View Post
1- change the codec
2- remove the LOG gamma
I really hope not Sanjin! That would be a deal breaker for many I'm sure. What you suggest makes a lot of sense based on what Sony did to create the FS100.

However, one must descend a long way down the Canon food chain to fall below XF codec. It's their defacto standard, with even the very affordable XF100 having it. Dropping it would be a hard sell.

If a C100 does eventuate, it will broaden the appeal of both units if they are format compatible. After buying an XL-H1, I picked up an XH-A1 to complement it. Likewise, a lot of people are working XF100s and XF300s side by side. And C300 owners will do the same with a more affordable sibling provided they share a codec.

Thinking more on this, and on what you and Andy have added, Canon could potentially retain the codec but *perhaps* -

* adopt DSLR form factor (sans XLR/LCD unit and custom buttons/knobs)
* lose NDs
* lose HD-SDI & genlock
* use DSLR batteries
* available in EF mount only

Pure speculation, but these alterations might allow for a significant price drop, and justify the C300 premium for big outfits who really need them (without compromising IQ for the rest of us!).

One caution. Looking again at the poster, it speaks of a "very exclusive screening"... rather than a product announcement as such.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #18
 
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

C300's weakness is the price.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 09:01 AM   #19
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

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Originally Posted by Josh Dahlberg View Post
One caution. Looking again at the poster, it speaks of a "very exclusive screening"... rather than a product announcement as such.
Yep, I noticed that too -- so I believe it might just be a "very exclusive screening" of a Ron Howard production -- unfortunately.

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Old March 11th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #20
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

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Originally Posted by Josh Dahlberg View Post
I really hope not Sanjin! That would be a deal breaker for many I'm sure.
A 5k camera with a LOG function would be dumping IMHO. No other camera has it in this price range. If they bring LOG to 5k market then all I got to say is woohoo!:) But that would also mean that shooting with log would become something that we would eventually have to do on budgets that before didn't include log. Maybe, I'm not saying definitely. I'm not fiddling around with LOG if there's no budget for it BUT it's a cut throat market out here and who knows what's to come...
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Old March 11th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #21
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

I think
- Same 4k sensor (if 4k recording, canon might unlock 4k to c300 via firmware upgrade as well)
- display will be like 60D style instead of c300
- dual card slot like mk3 and 1Dx
- xlr slot mightbe optional via hotshot connector (it happen on GL2)
- clean hdmi output (since its drop from mk3, pretty sure it will be on c100, c300 has it as wel)
- price range $6-7k canon wants to compete with fs100 & af100. But canon always thought they are better and price is higher $1-2k
- still no autofocus to match with c300 :S
- EF mount only
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Old March 11th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #22
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Wong View Post
I think
- Same 4k sensor (if 4k recording, canon might unlock 4k to c300 via firmware upgrade as well)
I'm pretty sure that it will NOT be possible to "unlock" 4k on the C300. To get 4k from the chip you're talking about means a different camera, period. Many of the reasons the C300 is what it is is because they used already existing technology to bring a product more quickly to market - very sensible. But although the sensor may be there, much of the other electronics isn't - there isn't anything to "unlock".

And don't lets anybody muddy the waters between it being an "above C300" 4k camera, and a "C100". It'll be one - or the other. Don't expect 4k recording at $4,000, with RAW output ....... it's unrealistic.

I'm more inclined now to go along with the "C100" theory. If it was the "C4k" it just seems too short a time after the initial announcement. Wouldn't it have been better just to have waited a few months and just brought out the "C4k"? But we can assume (because of the C300) that all the basic tech for any "C100" already exists.

Unless I really had to, I don't think it would be a good idea to buy a FS100 or AF100 for the next month at least.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Wong View Post
- price range $6-7k canon wants to compete with fs100 & af100. But canon always thought they are better and price is higher $1-2k
That would make sense. And if it still had the 50Mbs codec that would mean no necessary expense or hassle of an external recorder. That sort of price would be roughly the same as the AF100/FS100 with a broadcast quality recorder. (Without the mounting hassles, wires etc!)
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:13 PM   #23
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

i am just about the trigger to get a FS100... so many announcement coming
Mar 13 Sony, possibly a new NXCAM
April 15, Canon EOS Cinema
probably panasonic will have some new camera coming up since AF100 already 2 years...

I just sold my 5Dmk2, and don't have a camera at this moment, quite worry when will the camera be available to ship after the announcement

i think i probably won't wait for canon, because i need a camera that can do autofocus (sometimes i will need it, specially on glidecam and jib) and i don't think EOS will have that feature
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #24
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalan Salur View Post
C300's weakness is the price.
That's what I used to say about the Bugatti Veyron until people told me the weakness wasn't the price, but my inability to afford it.

And to all...
Though it's fun, the speculation is mostly pointless. There are only 3 things we know:
1) Canon has a DSLR form factor camera coming
2) It may be 4k
3) We don't always get what we want, and when we do it sometimes costs 3x what we think it will.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:25 PM   #25
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

i agree, C300 weakness is the price. The feature is something a little higher than FS100, not worth $16k
but canon can't set it to $6-7k, otherwise no one will buy xf series
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:37 PM   #26
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

Sorry but that statement doesn't make very much sense. Anybody who needs a fully
motorized zoom, a high focal length ratio, a deep focal plane, auto or semi-auto exposure,
autofocus, a smaller form factor and a variety of other considerations generally relating to
event videography (rather than narrative filmmaking) will choose an XF series camcorder
over a C300 even if they were priced the same. And that's because a C300 can't deliver
any of those things, which the XF series was made specifically to do.

The XF series camcorders and the C300 are two completely different tools for completely
different types of jobs. One would not make a good substitute for the other, and the price
of the C300 makes absolutely no impact on that fact.

And Dylan is spot on, as usual.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #27
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

Based on Canon's seemingly underwhelming (but actually sound) decision to focus on better sensor performance as opposed to resolution, I would like to venture a guess:

1. APS-C sensor - because I suspect this is a quick reaction to market events, and someone at Canon has had to fight hard for it. If it's a FF sensor, what does that do to the 5DIII's pride of place?
2. Specs similar to the 7D, with an H.264 inter frame only codec at 8-bit
3. 16-18 MP still camera, which puts it in the 7D ball park - any higher and it threatens the 5DIII. I'm curious to see how they tackle the heat problem - especially if they decide to encase it like the 1DX. For a company that guards its new models and test photographs jealously, they were awfully quick to release a photograph of the camera last year.

There is a market for cheap 4K, but is it big enough to excite a dinosaur like Canon?

Moreover, anyone who gets excited by the 4K camera only to purchase it and then start worrying about how they are going to actually edit, finish and deliver an interframe 4K codec (if it turns out to be the case), will probably be in for a rude shock to discover the 1080p mode of the camera might not be better or even equal to the 5DIII, but the price is. Where exactly does this camera fit in Canon's line up? Why does it even have to be a DSLR?

This is just a playful guesses so don't take me seriously, and I hope to be proven wrong, but in the 'better than expected' direction.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Wong View Post
when will the camera be available to ship after the announcement
Refer to Canon U.S.A. Announces the EOS 5D Mark III Digital SLR Camera at DVInfo.net
-- the EOS 5D Mk. III starts shipping by the end of this month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sareesh Sudhakaran View Post
If it's a FF sensor, what does that do to the 5DIII's pride of place?
Most likely very little, because the 5D line through all three generations has been positioned
by Canon only as their most affordable full-frame D-SLR. It is not a product line flagship by
any means. That distinction goes to the EOS 1DX, and only in terms of *still photography*
cameras. There is some overlap of feature sets, but the Cinema EOS line is entirely
separate from the 1DX and 5D Mk. III.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sareesh Sudhakaran View Post
There is a market for cheap 4K, but is it big enough to excite a dinosaur like Canon?
What exactly do you mean by "dinosaur?" Do you recall that they
exhibited a concept camera for consumer 4K back in 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sareesh Sudhakaran View Post
Why does it even have to be a DSLR?
Because that's what they've already teased. See New Canon Digital SLR Camera Under Development at DVInfo.net
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Old March 11th, 2012, 11:41 PM   #29
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
What exactly do you mean by "dinosaur?" Do you recall that they
exhibited a concept camera for consumer 4K back in 2010?
A dinosaur? A company that has probably forgotten how many limbs it has, and whether it has a tail or not. Imagine if the tail strikes gold, and it takes two years for the head to get the news, and that too because another animal has gotten there first! :)

Here's my line of thought on the issue:
Video cameras don't need DSLR technology, or its form factor. If the EOS Cinema line is truly separate, then why does it have a DSLR form factor? Canon already has a great video division that knows how to design video cameras. I actually happen to like the form factor of the C300.

So is Canon trying to join the two divisions? If so, the new 5DIII does not make sense. So what gives? This is what leads me to believe there is a 'hero' somewhere in Canon who is sticking his neck out for us, and I thank him for it.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 03:37 AM   #30
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Re: Canon 2012 NAB teaser

If it is a C100, I'm certain it will not loose the 50mbit codec. But IMO its very early for a C100.
For me "screening" translates to 4K. FF highly probable. It's the only reasonable excuse for a DSLR form factor.

Also there is a red subtitle that is not readable. Does anyone has the actual invitation, to tell us what is written in the red text?
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