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Old April 26th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #46
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Re: New JVC cameras

I am not against 1080p60 and sure a 1/3" chip camera can have a lot of detail. I am very impressed with my XF300. My point was that talking about a $6,000 camera compared to $100,000+ cameras and saying the $6,000 gets the nod because it has 1080p60 is not my experience. Just pointing out that there is more to video images than resolution numbers.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #47
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Re: New JVC cameras

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Stephen ...
I know this is kind of a downer post, but I come across a lot of folks who still have never seen Blu-ray or high definition.
Hi Tim, no worries, not a downer at all! There is always something more to learn. And, we are keeping this thread alive - Hey Craig Yanagi, you still there? ;-)

When I burn disks for friends, even if they don't have a HD TV or a BluRay player, I always give them two disks - a DVD and the BD. I tell them to hang on to the BD - they will be able to play it sooner than they might think.

All technical gyrations aside, I still notice a big difference when I shoot 1080 compared to 720 on the same cam. I use Vegas 10/11. I've never found any setting that can make my 720 stuff look as sharp as 1080.

When I shoot in 1080 with a cam that has 1000 TV lines of res, and render in Vegas to the highest possible data rate for BluRay, and then burn a disk and play it on my TV, it pretty much looks as sharp as Avatar - and both look better than my HD cable.

Here's another reason to always shoot in 1080 - at 60p if available. I often do pan/crop in post, to simulate moving the camera, zooming, etc. If you try that with 720p original footage, the degradation gets pretty bad pretty quick. 1080 gives me the latitude to work with the footage more in post.

I have not put any of my cameras into 720 mode for over a year ...

Steve
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Old April 26th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #48
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Re: New JVC cameras

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I am not against 1080p60 and sure a 1/3" chip camera can have a lot of detail. I am very impressed with my XF300...

The XF300 is a beautiful piece of engineering. I drool for the 4" LCD and love the way it stows under the handle.

But, aside from not being able to afford CF cards or the cam itself, after having had a taste of 1080 60p I just can't go back to 30p. Keep in mind that I am not a "pro" - I don't want to sell footage to broadcast venues or even sell my work. I'm an amateur looking for a three-chipper with true 1000 TVL resolution, a big, fast lens, deep DoF, etc. etc.

I had such high hopes for the Panny AC160 and was devastated by the problems with build quality and noisy servos. Sure, it had other annoyances like the lack of a built-in dust-cap in the hood, bad positioning for the LCD, fiddly menus and such, but I could have lived with that - the image quality was great, waaay better than the Sony NX5. But the servos were so loud that even with my mike on a second stand 6 feet from the AC160, the sound of the servos came through. It was bizarre, I had never encountered anything so horrible. They were even louder six feet away than the servos in my Sony HDR-CX550V when using the internal mic on the Sony!

The JVC GY-HM600U is the only three-chipper left in any price range that will work for me. Other cams might be great for other people, but I have many requirements such as light weight, SDXC cards and AVCHD that rule out cams like the Canon XF series or the Sony XDCAM line. That's why I'm so excited about the JVC - if they just give it the AVCHD 2.0 standard, which is pretty "standard" these days for AVCHD cams, it will be perfect.

Help me Craig Yanagi Kenobi - you are my only hope at this point.

Steve

Last edited by Stephen Crye; April 26th, 2012 at 05:04 PM. Reason: typo
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Old April 26th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #49
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Re: New JVC cameras

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Originally Posted by Stephen Crye View Post
But the servos were so loud that even with my mike on a second stand 6 feet from the AC160, the sound of the servos came through.
All the competing cameras seem to have little problems: the near IR sensitivity of the EX1 turning black into brown, the viewfinder of the FX300 which is easily damaged by the sun as well as this servo noise issue with AC160 not to mention the auto focus bug. Including both 4:2:2 1080i and 4:2:0 1080p recording modes on the HM600 could prepare JVC for a big success.

Last edited by Eric Olson; April 27th, 2012 at 10:47 AM.
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Old April 26th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #50
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Re: New JVC cameras

Hi Stephen,

Just wondering if you considered the possibility that you may have a faulty AC160?

I have both an AC 130 and an AC160 and neither are any noisier than the two Sony EX 1's they replaced, even to MY aging ears!

As an avid reader of forums, I have never seen anyone mention "noisey servos" either here or on the "other" mainly Panasonic forum about the AC 130 - 160 series, and I've certainly never picked up server noise through a shotgun mounted on either camera.

It seems you may have got a faulty one.

Cheers,

Vaughan
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Old April 26th, 2012, 09:23 PM   #51
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Re: New JVC cameras

I'm very interested in the new JVC GYHM650 and its ability to transmit a file via WIFI to an FTP account.
I shoot events and ENG for a local TV studio in Southern Connecticut and initially, I thought that this new feature would be fantastic for sending video from the field to the studio. That is until I realized how impractical that would be. If I send an HD file (or even 1/4 HD) of a half hour or an hour event, that would likely take an hour or more to do that even with a 15Mb/sec cable modem. In the field, I'd be lucky to get a WIFI connection that's even a fraction of that speed. Could this be just a marketing gimmick that is not likely to get much use, like GPS in a video camera? Why spend another $1,000 for this feature when the GYHM600 will do?
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Old April 27th, 2012, 12:32 AM   #52
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Re: New JVC cameras

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Originally Posted by Ed Arszyla View Post
I'm very interested in the new JVC GYHM650 and its ability to transmit a file via WIFI to an FTP account.
I shoot events and ENG for a local TV studio in Southern Connecticut and initially, I thought that this new feature would be fantastic for sending video from the field to the studio. That is until I realized how impractical that would be. If I send an HD file (or even 1/4 HD) of a half hour or an hour event, that would likely take an hour or more to do that even with a 15Mb/sec cable modem. In the field, I'd be lucky to get a WIFI connection that's even a fraction of that speed. Could this be just a marketing gimmick that is not likely to get much use, like GPS in a video camera? Why spend another $1,000 for this feature when the GYHM600 will do?
I think the idea of sending video back is to do short segments of video, like a sound bite and a little b-roll for the noon news show. It would seem to be impractical for sending back a half-hour's worth of video, but who knows.
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Old April 30th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #53
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Re: New JVC cameras

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Originally Posted by Vaughan Wood View Post
Hi Stephen,

Just wondering if you considered the possibility that you may have a faulty AC160?

Vaughan
I did consider that, but I did not want to hassle with return/exchange. I might try an AC160A when it comes out. However, I don't think it was faulty. The sound came from the gears. I could hear the same sound if the servo switch was in the "engage" position and I manually moved the zoom ring. When the switch was not engaged, the sound was gone (other than the faint scratchy plastic sound from the zoom ring - not nearly as silky and quiet as the NX5)

I'll try to post some of the recordings.
I have never used an EX1, but the Panny was way louder than my CX550V, the NX70s, and the NX5 I tested.

I'm kind of worried by this, because all the other cams I've tested or owned did not have a zoom ring that directly engaged the lens - the ring was electronic and communicated the signal to the lens motors, similar to what happens with the rocker. I'm hypothesizing that the motors in those cases are stepper motors. On the Panny, it seems to be some kind a gear motor. I hope that the JVC and other cams I have not tried don't have the design of the Panny, where there is a little engage/disengage switch for the zoom servos.



Steve

Last edited by Stephen Crye; April 30th, 2012 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Details
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Old April 30th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #54
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Re: New JVC cameras

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Originally Posted by Ed Arszyla View Post
that would likely take an hour or more to do that even with a 15Mb/sec cable modem.
Don't expect 15 Mbps upload speed ... I pay for 10 Mbps cable, but that is download. Upload is never more than 1 Mbps.

Steve
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Old April 30th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #55
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Re: New JVC cameras

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Originally Posted by Stephen Crye View Post
Don't expect 15 Mbps upload speed ... I pay for 10 Mbps cable, but that is download. Upload is never more than 1 Mbps.
You're right, I forgot about that. My download speed is 15Mbps, upload is slightly better than 1 Mbps, but never more than 2 Mbps.

That makes the GYHM650 WiFi upload feature even less practical than I originally thought. Anyone from JVC care to comment? Maybe I'm missing something.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 12:15 AM   #56
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Re: New JVC cameras

Just found this review video where Philip Johnston says this is the best performing 1/3" camera he has seen (there is a low light clip of the HM600 vs Canon XF305 & the JVC blows the Canon away)


I'm eager to see more.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:19 AM   #57
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Re: New JVC cameras

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Originally Posted by Stephen Crye View Post
if they just give it the AVCHD 2.0 standard, which is pretty "standard" these days for AVCHD cams, it will be perfect.
Nobody is perfect ;-) Don't expect to see 1080p50 or 1080p60 in the GY-HM600/650 because we were told the hardware is not able to handle it. But at least JVC is thinking about adding 1080p25 and presumably1080p30, too, in AVCHD mode which at the moment shoots only 50i or 60i. Interlaced is perfect for broadcast use but having a progressive format on board should be standard nowadays. Of course 1080p25 is available in XDCAM EX mode already, although the first production models of HM600 have a little 1080p25 bug which JVC is aware of and promised to fix it by a new firmware in a few days.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 01:37 PM   #58
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Re: New JVC cameras

I have been waiting since April for this cam. I'm sitting on $5K , ready to buy, but I will NOT buy an AVCHD camera that uses the old AVCHD 1.0 spec!!

I've been exchanging emails with JCV, including Craig Yanagi, and they seem to be barely aware of the AVCHD 2.0 standard, which includes 1080 50/60p at 28 Mbps. A half-dozen or so competitors already have AVCHD 2.0 cams - heck, even some of the JVC consumer cams have it!

Panny recently saw the light when they upped the AG-AC160 to the AC-160a with 1080 60p. Other AVCHD 2.0 cams include the Sony NX70, the NX30, the VG-20, the NEX-EA50 and the Panny TM900.

JVC is NUTS to cripple an otherwise perfect cam with a 5-year AVCHD capability. Come on JVC ... AVCHD 2.0 has been out since July 2011! AVCHD INFORMATION WEB SITE

I'm begging everyone in this forum ... complain to JVC! JVCs chips are plenty fast enough for AVCHD 2.0. JVC needs to listen!

Frustrated and TIRED OF SITTING ON MY CASH!

Steve
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 02:51 PM   #59
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Re: New JVC cameras

I'm not going to complain to jvc, but neither am I going to buy it. I agree with all your points, jvc could have absolutely knocked this one out of the park with avchd 2.0. If they had, I would not be able to refuse it!
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:09 PM   #60
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Re: New JVC cameras

Also Stephen, out of curiosity which other features of the jvc missing on the panasonic ac160a would stop you from buying that cam, which otherwise is its closest competitor? For me it would be sensitivity, latitude, low light and dynamic range. But the wifi, choice of recording codecs are very interesting.
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